OT: Why can't a petrol engine start itself?

When I were a lad, one of my mates got an old Austin from somewhere. A40 or A70 or something like that. We had to start that with a handle, and the slot had angled sides in one direction of rotation, so that it wouldn't grab the handle. We still kept our thumbs on the same side as our fingers, though. The thing was a death-trap - no doors (but we put some ropes across the holes), no fuel tank (we just used to hold a petrol can in mid air through the absent windscreen and let gravity feed it in). But we only drove it around waste ground, and round local roads in the middle of the night. Wouldn't dare do it now - it was another world then.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 11:10:31 +0100, Peeler trolling:

I don't understand what your problem is.

It's a valid technical proposition, it does not seem practical I know, but it promotes an interesting discussion and who knows it may even prod a budding Laithwaite toward the first commercial engine with no starter motor.

Perhaps you are the bait, considered that?

De Bono put forward a design for a wheelbarrow to various groups, a new design with the wheel in the center, rear and the pivot/ leg at the front.

It was scoffed at, by all but schoolchildren, who immediately saw the advantages over a conventional barrow. I dont know if the design made it to production, but it should have.

AB

Not good!

The clockwork would be better "charged" by the storage of energy provided when braking.

The clockwork is then simply another starter motor, so it would not meet the design spec.

AB

No! you are not following!

Mechanical coupling of valves, pistons and spark generator cannot be present. Everything apart from the pistons and crankshaft needs to be independently sensed and timed, thus there is no risk of bent valve stems.

AB

There's quite a bit of difference between absolute position and a trigger pulse firing a plug.

Like what?

hot bulb?

Hot bulb engines widely used in marine applications were another variety, The HotBulb was a small chamber linked to the cylinder via a passage and it was this chamber that was heated by the blowlamp

Fuel is injected into this heated chamber and on the compression stroke air enters via passage and allows the fuel to ignite the expanding gases going back through the passage into the cylinder. After a period of running the Hot Bulb chamber stayed hot enough that the external heat from the blow lamp could be removed.

GH

Yes, now I remember the Lada did have that. The crank handle engaged using a lightbulb bayonet type arrangement, so when the engine fired it pushed the handle out rather than rotating it.

NT

esn't like starting on the starter sometimes. The reason being I have the battery negative connected via a large crocodile clip so I can disconnect i t at night. There's a fault with the alarm and it often used a few amps al l night, running the battery flat otherwise. Impossible to fix as the alar m is hidden well inside the dashboard to stop thieves from disabling it. T he clip provides a bit of resistance so it can't get quite enough current t o start sometimes and I have to try 2 or 3 times. Then the ECU gets confus ed and doesn't know how much fuel to give it.

n not works fine with round posts, not so much with rectangular ones. With those perhaps a big (market stall canopy sized) croc clip could hold the co nnector against the battery post, adding a bolt without nut to stop it slid ing sideways.

human finger used. But it's only contacting with each of its teeth, not t he whole circle like if the proper connector is used.

ed something I can quickly take on and off every morning/evening, without m essing around with tools.

Round posts are tapered. You might need to do up the bolts partway on your connectors so that it presses on & stays there, but is easy to pull off. It worked for me anyway when I used to charge batteries on a car.

NT

esn't like starting on the starter sometimes. The reason being I have the battery negative connected via a large crocodile clip so I can disconnect i t at night. There's a fault with the alarm and it often used a few amps al l night, running the battery flat otherwise. Impossible to fix as the alar m is hidden well inside the dashboard to stop thieves from disabling it. T he clip provides a bit of resistance so it can't get quite enough current t o start sometimes and I have to try 2 or 3 times. Then the ECU gets confus ed and doesn't know how much fuel to give it.

n not works fine with round posts, not so much with rectangular ones. With those perhaps a big (market stall canopy sized) croc clip could hold the co nnector against the battery post, adding a bolt without nut to stop it slid ing sideways.

human finger used. But it's only contacting with each of its teeth, not t he whole circle like if the proper connector is used.

charging batteries for stationary use

NT

that's it.

NT

Lada? Starting handle? Shurely not. How could any engine that sounded so silky sweet and pure need anything but a gentle hint of movement from the starter to run.

Apart from that, one hefty rotation and the camshaft would fall to bits.

Happy days.

Oddly enough they were the preferred car for taxi drivers, even beating the Japanese hands down.

They were certainly cheap, although I dont think a single camshaft made it to the first service.

AB

That must have been interesting.

I too put dead batteries into a car, but I found it easier to let the car charge them :-)

AB

Do F1 engines still have a camshaft? They use compressed air instead of valve springs for sure.

Mmm. Looks like they did at least until fairly recently.

Cant find much on modern engines

On Saturday, 24 March 2018 05:27:15 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wro te:

Strange how so many people when talking about Ladas have a failure of basic sense. They were a mostly typical 1960s car with some mods to adapt them t o Russian use. For reasons that had nothing to do with their qualities or s hortcomings a lot of people talked a lot of b- about them.

NT

can't think why

I didn't

that was the point of the exercise

NT

Normally the air is compressed. If the engine has been stationary for some time any compressed air might well have leaked out. Even if the ECU could work out the mass of the air left and then supply the right amount of fuel there night not be enough bang to start the engine.

You are incorrect.

I believe that they were originally based on some kind of Fiat. They were tremendously popular amongst taxi drivers, every second one in my locality was a Lada.

Numerous garages had billboards offering camshaft replacement at the actual price to the customer. Certainly no other vehicle before or since had billboard adverts offering specific parts replacement.

They were very cheap to buy, and this alone would take them out of the "typical" 60's car league. Although to be honest, I dont know what you mean by a "typical" 60's car, there somehow seemed more variety than is aparent today, although I suppose economy/ aerodynamics means that there is less room for manufacturers to work in regarding shape, style and engineering these days. A lot of 60's cars still had a propshaft, with one or two models developing a reputation that would shame an olympic pole vaulter.

Not sure what the bodywork was like though, I know that Fiats of that era started rotting a few weeks after purchase, the Lada too would probably be poor, but I cannot recollect it being exceptional in the rotting stakes.

Now the Moskvitch was a totally different ballgame, more iron oxide than 3M have used before during and after magnetic recording hit the scene, and that was just one Moskvitch.

AB