OT: North Mid Hosp, PCN?

Is it simply that they are asserting you didn't pay at all?

pass

yes - *if* you breached properly displayed terms. But that does depend on the proper procedure as you intimated above. And on their evidence. Is the car park controlled by number plate recognition?

I suggest you repost (NB not cross-post) to uk.legal.moderated.

I think so Robin. There is no specific mention of what I did wrong, especially the one when we were there for only 32 minutes and would have paid for a whole hour (the minimum duration), other than 'it was parked in a manner where the driver was liable for a parking charge'?

Understood.

And my lack of anything in my defence because I paid in cash and the machine not issuing a receipt. ;-(

It is, photographs of us going in and out and we don't dispute the dates or durations etc.

Ok, thanks, will do. ;-)

We are due back to Nth Mid soon and will probably 1) try park outside on a std meter that issues tickets and 2) read and take photographs of all the signs around the meter(s) we have used in the main carpark.

When you are late for an appointment because of heavy traffic and / or it's raining and you have used metered parking in many such places over many years and have never previously had a ticket (because we have always paid our dues), standing there trying to read the small print when you have basically inserted the right money for the right period and for the right vehicle is all you really feel you should have to do. Certainly in so far as we were obviously not trying to evade payment, even if we didn't (and we don't know we didn't) do it by the book etc (paying up front?). ;-(

Cheers, T i m

You could try this. Some people think they're all idiots, but it helped me a lot one time when the missus got a ticket, even though she'd paid.

Thanks for that Dan.

I have now had a look at the PCN (the Mrs was reading them out) and it does state that the reasons they were issued were because:

"Failure to Pay for the Duration of Stay", which whilst *could* be valid (if there is no leeway) when we were there for 61 minutes but only paid for 60 (rather than 120) but not the one where we paid for an hour but only stayed for 30 minutes. *Or* it could be that they don't believe that we paid at all for either (allowing for some time leeway) or that the way we paid (before we were leaving rather than when we arrived) makes it that it's considered we hadn't paid. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

One where you have to enter your reg. no. when paying? If so a common problem is a slip when doing so. I think there's a "line to take" on that about asking about unmatched payments before the time of the exit photo which but you need someone who knows more and better than me.

I thought there was a 5 minute period of grace where they can't book you (to avoid having people drive like lunatics against the clock to leave).

Do you know what sort of enforcement they use? Is it ANPR on entry and exit or a van that comes round and a bloke with a camera. If the latter and you paid on exit then you could well be flagged as a non payer.

You need to read the rules more carefully. Snag is without physical tickets I am not sure how you prove that you *did* pay (unless you put your registration into the machine - worth a challenge at least).

Many hospital car parks are extremely user hostile and require payment up front for the maximum time that you intend to stay in advance. Many of the satellite carparks have been sold off to the highest bidder who is keen to milk patients for everything they can get.

You only find this out when you have a free parking pass for visiting the terminally ill and it is only valid in two of the five available hospital carparks (they are by far the most congested central ones). (talking here about hospitals in Manchester I don't know about yours)

Yes.

Whilst I understand and accept that (and am not ruling completely ruling it out) I am pretty good with such things (data entry ) and the Mrs usually checks before I hit Ok, just to be sure. The reg on the vehicle we were in on the day is partly symmetrical (so fairly easy to remember) and is it happens, one of the few I can generally pull out the air without having to check / confirm.

Understood and thanks for the thought Robin. ;-)

As an aside ... you would have thought that they would check for that before sending out the PCN?

In the light of the system not offering any receipt for the cash transaction, what proof do any of us have that we have paid?

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I might look into the retrospective online payment as at least then there would be proof of payment and you would be sure what you were supposed to be paying for!

If you can get a letter signed by one of the hospital departments, it might help. After all, if I'm alone and my appointment is delayed, I'm not about to trundle off to the car park and risk missing it altogether. No joined up thinking these days.

Unless that was already included but short of any small queue at the exit, we would have been out no more than a couple of minutes after paying?

Understood ... but it's ANPR Martin and they show both the entry and exit pictures on the PCNs.

Agreed (although we may have done nothing wrong and what we did the last 3 times, paying before we leave is something we have done elsewhere with no issues). FWIW etc.

Quite.

We are pretty sure we did (well, I did and the Mrs would have checked it before I pressed Ok) and I would have checked that it was happy, heard it print a receipt internally and didn't come up with an error etc.

worth a challenge at least).

That makes sense on all the 'Pay and display' but most of the ANPR places seem happy to let you pay before you leave or even within 24 hours (inc the Dartford crossing).

Quite.

I think there is some of that at the Nth Mid, for doctors only etc.

Cheers, T i m

order to avoid having to enter reg. no. each time, and to have a record of what they paid when.

Personally I'd ask them if they can legally enforce it if they do not issue any form of notice to you to confirm what you are paying for. Brian

Ok. That should be pretty easy. The thing is though, we aren't contesting the times we were there and I'm not sure they are saying we were there when we shouldn't have been (like we were using their carpark but going shopping etc as there is nothing else around there and the cameras are pretty obvious).

No, that's why you end up loading the meter 'just in case'. And of course, the times you do that you are in and out on 10 minutes.

Agreed.

And it's not really even the money, especially when they are trying to 'charge' me for parking there for 30 minutes but not paying at all (when I know full well we did).

From my POV, I know I put 2 x £1 coins in the machine and that gave me an hour. IRDGAF what happens after that, I've paid my dues, exactly as if there was a man in a booth and he dropped one of my £1 coins on his floor. Except in this case, some 'system' with a vested interest in penalising people for no reason (or one minute over in the case of the other PCN). I'd happily send them the other 2 quid for the 560 second 'overstayed' PCN (if that's what is was) but don't they think I would have bought the extra hour at the time if I wasn't reasonably sure we were out within the time slot? [1]

If I had a history of PCNs against my 40 years driving history it might paint a picture but I don't. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

I think I installed the app (or a parking app) when at Barnet Hospital a while back but ended up paying cash before departure so never used it.

I'll have to look at it again.

Cheers, T i m

Quite and AFAIC, the only question mark(s) here are:

Cheers, T i m

And they say access to the NHS is free at the point of use!

Well, that was a public car park at a ferry terminal but it still applies to many hospital car parks that's for sure. ;-)

And whilst it's bad enough for those who just have to go to the hospital now and again, parking can be equally bad for the staff, especially if the hospital isn't easy to access by good public transport (or the cost of that, even if it is).

When we help elderly friends or family with hospital trips it's often the most prudent that both the Mrs and I take them. I drop them off outside the main entrance and then drive off and find somewhere to park and wait.

That's not always easy if the hospital doesn't have a very big car park, there is a station or shopping area nearby and amongst residential housing as it will all be 'Residents only' everywhere you go. ;-(

For anything other than a straight routine test / procedure I have been known to drive home and wait there till summonsed to a pickup. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

I use it a lot. Partly because I use ine big car park quite a bit, and it's a long walk to the machine and I always seem to be in a hurry.

Ringgo was particularly useful when my son was having a load of dental work done. He had several sessions of varying length. They didn't want me to leave the building without him, but the sessions sometimes took longer than expected. Being able to extend the parking time from the waiting room was very useful, and worth the small extra fee.

Does the extra minute include the time taken to read all the terms and conditions of their contract when you park there? Are those T & C readable outside the parking area - ie before you park? Are you able to read them without parking first (Catch 22 applies...)? If it takes 5 minutes to read the T&C, then you are parking for only 56 minutes; or does the ANPR system take that into account, and remove and "average" reading time from the total parking time?