OT: Mathematical Conundrum II

[pamela]

Any advance on 11? :-)

[soup]

I am not confused but others seem to be.

[News]

In message , Tim+ writes

When I was behind the PO counter, at one point a stamp was 50p. I had great pleasure in asking the oldies for 'ten bob, please'. HOW much? TEN SHILLINGS for a stamp???

[NY]

No, we're not confused. I simply wonder how widespread it was for the post-1971 10p coin to be called "a two-bob", even if it *had* been worth two bob/shillings before decimalisation. Obviously it would make sense for a pre-1971 coin stamped "two shillings" (or whatever wording they used) to continue to be referred to as a two-bob afterwards, but for one stamped "10 new pence" to be also called that is very slightly more of an anachronism.

How recently have you heard this usage? I imagine it gets less as time goes on and fewer people remember pre-decimal coinage. And the new-size 5p and

10p are only the same *value* and no longer the same *size* as their pre-decimal counterparts.

I'm trying to remember how the changeover from old 5p to new 5p was managed. It was a chicken and egg situation: there's no point changing coin-operated machines (eg telephones) until most of the 5ps in circulation are the new one, but there's no point circulating the new 5p until most vending machines can accept it. I wonder if there was a period when vending machines would accept either, coupled with a well-publicised campaign of "return your old coins to the bank and exchange them for new ones". Shops would accept either and I suppose as soon as shops pay in coins, the banks return them to the mint for melting down into new-size coins, instead of as normal re-circulating them as floats to other shopkeepers, but I wonder how long that process would take if it was not assisted by a public campaign. To say that it happened as recently as 1990 (5p) and 1992 (10p), I have no memory of how the change was phased in.

Around the time of decimalisation, did banks similarly encourage people to return old copper coins to the bank in exchange for the same value of new-pence coins? And did shops start to accept new-pence coins early, for those people who had already exchanged their coins, and continue to accept old-pence coins for a little while afterwards, for those who hadn't, or was it a very abrupt not-before-today and not-after-today cutoff? It only applies to copper coins because 1s and 5p, and 2s and 10p coins were interchangeable. And apparently the 50p coin was introduced a year or so earlier and was already in circulation alongside the 10s note. I presume there was a huge changeover process on D-day of all vending machines that took copper coins.

I was 7 when it happened - old enough to remember being given that week's pocket money in new coins and taking them to the shop to buy my weekly comic or my Rocket ice lolly, but not old enough to be aware of the wider picture of how people changed their coins and how vending machines and phone boxes were changed over. I remember there was a short-lived trend at school for people to stick safety pins on the back of old coins with Araldite and wear them as badges. I wonder if my mum and dad have kept any of them up in the loft...

[NY]

"Ten shillings? That's very nearly an armful!"

Ah no, I'm confusing two different things :-)

[dennis]

AE

[NY]

Hmmm. What could AE mean? Since we're talking about bases, I wonder if it's

0xAE, ie 10*16 + 14. Now what's the significance of 174? Maybe I'm being TCBH (too clever by half).

[John Rumm]

IME, very widespread. Keep in mind that the original 1 and 2 shilling coins were still widely in circulation being re-purposed as 5 and 10p coins. People in the habit of referring to a 2 bob coin were unlikely to study the particular one in their hand first to decide if it needed a new title.

They were the same size, weight, and appearance.

Indeed, far less common these days. However still heard from time to time.

There was certainly a time, when machines would not accept new ones. Then later some would acquire stickers to say both old and new were recognised.

There was probably less urgency to remove recognition of the old coins as they were withdrawn from circulation.

There was also a metal composition change at some point, since modern versions have a high steel content, whereas the original coins were non ferrous.

[Albert Zweistein]

I don't five a flying f*ck about your bets.

Every industrialized country in the world barring the backward US uses SI but you know better than all of them huh? What a wonderful person you must be. Alternatively you're a shitferbrains that wouldn't know real science if it jumped up and bit you on the nose.

[Bob Eager]

Funnily enough, I came to the same conclusion in a few seconds (I teach this stuff and it's pretty well second nature)

[NY]

Yes I remember a stage when it was the luck of the draw as to whether each coin would be accepted by a vending machine, and it was necessary to have a plentiful excess supply because a lot might be rejected. Something to do with the higher price of nickel and copper making it cheaper to make the coins out of steel, plated with either copper or nickel.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes. Old shillings and new 5p pieces were practically identical.

I cannot remember what happened to the old half crowns, sixpences and so on., but I am fairly sure the old copper stuff went pretty early on before the Great Day.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Why have you changed the subject? We were discussing the irrational natural numbers that all engineers and scientists have to learn to use.

And constrasting it with your bigotry that only whole numbers counted in tens were necessary or important.

Well I assume you know exactly what one of those looks like after staring in the mirror for so long.

>

[Albert Zweistein]

Keep taking the Aricept and you might be good for a couple more years posting to usenet, trouble is it will still be the same drivel you always post.

[Tim Streater]

What, the recent issue or the old florin (two-bob) coin? The first 10p coins were just rebadged florins. No reason the recent 10p couldn't be called two bob, anyway. The old sixpence used to be called a tanner, f'rinstance.

[Tim Streater]

So why *did* you change the subject then? Any why was your last post content-free?

[whisky-dave]

I remmeber being confused by half crowns and no one ever mentioning full cr owns or even crowns. Although I do remmebr the girls in my class developing Thrupenny Bits :) then we went decimal.

[Cursitor Doom]

dennis@home certainly was.

[soup]

I was too young to notice the details (9 or so) but:- I can remember using old pennies(d) to buy things at changeover time. The first 'level' were old and new money intercepted was 6d =2½ P . As the advertising jingle at the time had it ? Use your old pennies in sixpenny lots ?

[Cursitor Doom]

Probably. Care to share the knowledge with us plebs?