OT: Fredxx was right all along.

[T i m]

Hi all,

I've decided today to come clean and admit, in public, that Fredxx was right all along and that my whole vegan lifestyle thing was a lie.

'Of course' I like having animals slaughtered for me and am looking forward to the lockdown easing and can start going back to the abattoirs and watching it all going on. I'm not sure if my favourite is the bolt gunning of the calves or gassing the pigs (although the latter is pretty noisy) and if that's what it takes to ensure I get my B12, hey, they are only animals after all!

At least now (thanks to Fredxx) I don't have to sneak up the butchers, buy a nice bloody steak and sit an eat it in the car, in case any of my weirdo vegan family see me! (Mind you, the last time I did that some stray dog started jumping up at the car window, scratching paint (FFS) so I had to get out and give it a good kicking. Good job it was only an animal).

Anyway, I just wanted to thank Fredxx again today for helping me see the light with all his sound logic, calm reason and understanding.

Right, time for breakfast, some foie gras on toast washed down by a nice glass of calves milk I think. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Clive Arthur]

<snip>

Joking aside, I was given a jar of 'Faux Gras' from Gauthier's for christmas and it was bloody delicious. The recipe is on the Web, it's not complicated.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

You do realise that there will be some who do not get the humour in your post? Brian

[T i m]

Oh, don't spoil it Clive. I wanted to watch Fredxx revel in his glory as he was bound to have taken it literally. ;-)

I'll have to check that out (not that we ever really ate foie gras as we have considered the production process to be barbaric for years) ... and why wouldn't you seek out alternatives that didn't require all that animal torture (which it can only be considered to be)?

Whilst we are on the subject and being serious, you might like to sign the petition Fredxx pointed out elsewhere:

We get various vegan vegetables Pates, 'with onion, herbs and spices' etc and they are also 'perfectly fine', again, especially because an animal didn't have to suffer and die to provide them. This sort of thing:

It's just this normalisation of the assumed right / acceptance that it's 'ok' to make animals suffer and die when we don't need to that we need more people to consider.

The problem is they see 'vegan' and think it must be 'weird' (which is strange given 2/3rds of everone's diets are supposed to be (fruit and) vegetables in any case?) so they don't give it a go.

Everything we eat is vegan and so that is now 'perfectly normal' for us and further we are enjoying all the 'new' foods and flavours we may have never tried otherwise. Maybe we are just progressive retirees. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Of course (and partly the point). ;-)

ITRW there was no humour (just ironic truth and sarcasm) 'in' my post, but the timing and target.

Fredxx will probably accuse me of 'duping him' again as *he* 'didn't realise it was April fools day'! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

As would a troll having to hide behind several socks / aliases.

A real man would have more pride than to do that.

So, how you getting on with all the non-native, feral / stray cats out there in Auz? Are they all sitting on your shack as it floats off in the floodwater?

Cheers, T i m

[Tim Streater]

You mean they won't have noticed the date? Gosh.

[T i m]

Yes.

See, there are 'some people' who are very literal and seem to take everything at face value, not reading / seeing into anything further unless it's actually spelled out for them.

For some that seems to give them the chance to then make stuff up and if that's not countered (because you aren't reading what they type), take that as a confirmation of it being a fact!

And it's not just the trolls that get such things wrong. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Spike]

Sounds like you're describing the vegan movement's propaganda, but on the local level we like to help you out when you're thoughtlessly repeating the b*ll*x again.

[JNugent]

In the fridge at work, one reusable container used to be labelled "Typist's Milk".

[T i m]

<snip>

Exactly, the milk meant *for* the typist(s), not *from* them. ;-)

One of the biggest slap_in_the_face for cows in America is that humans often post pictures of their lost / missing children on cow milk cartons. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

<snip>

Well, only 'pretty ones' it seems?

I wonder what percentage of 'birders' spend ages watching the antics and plumage of a goose or duck and then go home and have goose or duck for dinner?

People seem happy to eat Turkeys and chickens because they aren't 'pretty'?

That said, we went to a Livestock show (on during one of the many cow related lockdowns, BSE maybe) and they only had the show chickens. I really didn't realise there were that many breeds and how 'fancy' some of them could be.

The Mrs gave some kid an actual clip_round_the_ear (without really thinking) because he was poking one of the chickens with a stick. It was probably Spike, he saw one being slaughtered when a kid and it didn't put him off so ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

p.s. One fairly distant Uncle used to breed budgies and one family friend we used to visit (as kids) had a budgie and I always thought keeping such a creature in such a confined space to be 'wrong'.

I mean, if she opened the window and it flew out and about but came 'home' that might be something.

When I was about 16 I rescued a Rock Dove (broken wing tip) and once the vet had treated it and it had regained it's strength, it lived free in an open fronted roosting box I made and put at the bottom of the garden, fairly high on the garage wall (so the cat's didn't get it) with a ramp access. The dogs also kept the cats away but didn't touch the dove.

We (it and us) didn't realise it could still fly till a mate threw it in the air (not realising it couldn't fly) and it managed to flap up and onto the house roof. It would still fly down and stay in it's house overnight and would jump onto my hand and walk up to my shoulder and often stay there as I walked around the garden.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

Glad you have seen the light mr april fool...tee hee

[T i m]

<snip>

;-)

No way would any of us go back to the dark side now and I think the penny might even drop with that carnist Fredxx sooner rather than later now (not that he would admit it of course).

He wants to force his views on everone in the UK by stopping them eating foie gras and I think he has already forced his view on who can eat veal. He should really let everone eat what they want. ;-(

But it's only a short step from there to 'getting' he really shouldn't be forcing his view on any animal (human or other) and then he will be saved. ;-)

It would have been nice if we could have done it today, being his birthday (I don't *know* that it is but being April Fools day it could well be and as he hasn't countered me I must be right (so I can add that to my list now)). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

<snip>

I think it was The One Show that was on in the background earlier and they were talking about people running amok in the great outdoors as lockdown eases, litter, 'The Country Code' and dogs behaving normally.

eg, There was a 'sheep farmer' saying how upset he was when he finds sheep that have been killed by dogs, 'We are passionate about our sheep' he said and considering he is going to kill them anyway (or send them to be killed etc) when they are still very young, exactly what was he upset about?

It can't be them being killed by dogs as dogs are their natural predators and the lambs their natural prey so that's just 'nature' right (and we know nature can be cruel) so is it that he didn't get to kill them himself and/or that he simply couldn't get the money from their dead corpses ... and the entire reason he was 'farming' them in the first place etc. It would be more understandable (from the premature death pov) if they were the last of a wild sheep species or he was running a rescue?

I mean, if someone is passionate about something that normally means they are very keen, into and would generally protect the outcome against all risks. If someone is 'passionate' about pottery, art or woodwork, they don't typically smash the pots / painting / furniture up at the end? Or if they are passionate about golf they don't break the clubs or dig up the green?

So are they 'passionate' about 'lambs' or 'exploiting lambs and making money from lamb meat', the corpses of the lambs they breed and raise?

eg, It's not the living animal they are passionate about, it's the money their corpses can bring, just a commodity?

No, I 'get' how people who have done something that their 'father and grandfather before them' has done, but what if their forefathers were bear-baiters or foie gras producers, would you be proud to carry that trade on 'these days'?

Cheers, T i m

[williamwright]

It's like BBC comedy. Poor humour because it's motivated by an agenda.

Bill

[T i m]

But hey, in this case you are getting any entertainment for free so get what you pay for, especially on April the 1st. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

I think T i m was dreaming and he wrote his post in his sleep.

[Fredxx]

I suspect if some dog ran off with your Tofurky you'd be a little miffed too.

Man is a natural predator too.

Yep, lambs are man's natural prey.

But because we are a higher animal, we can improve animal welfare and slaughter methods. But you don't want that do you? In fact you seem to bask in animal pain and suffering.

Has the penny finally dropped?

So what you're saying it's ok to kill a lamb for it's meat, glad we got that one sorted.

I don't see any farmers gunning down their flock either. Are you sure you're not still dreaming this or is this a continuation of April fools?

Many people are passionate about their possessions and cash too.

You've finally hit the nail on the head, well done.

In much the same was the poor Amazonian rainforests are cut down for your Tofurkey.

There are a lot of landowners who use their land for crops and animal husbandry. I'm sure many are proud of their traditions.

Again you fail to make a significant point.

[T i m]

<snip>

No, we can predate but we aren't really equipped to on much naturally and we weren't born with the right weapons.

Nope. We couldn't catch them, couldn't easily kill them and certainly couldn't dissect or consume them (without tools or fire).

We are only so in some limited ways that we have been able to use to our advantage. In many many aspects we are way primitive to other species. You are a very good example of that. [1]

We are as natural a predator of a sheep as we are natural in flight. 1 on 1 with no weapons and we would be easy pickings for a vast number of the worlds creatures.

The two things are completely opposite. To improve animal welfare that either means we have interfered with (f***ed up their habitat) it or caused it to happen directly (artificially breeding them in vast numbers).

I don't want to put animals in the position where we need to get involved in their welfare, no.

<snip troll shit>

Cheers, T i m

[1] I believe this is the crux of your attitude towards other species. You (truly) *believe* we are 'higher animals' AND THEREFORE have a right to do what we want to all others.

Except you then decide that you don't want other people eating duck or goose livers that have been force fed?

Make your mind up?

It's either one thing or the other, OR, there is some form of scale where *you* decide where to draw the line?

Intelligence, empathy, sociability, consent? You would be way down the scale of all of those compared with even a dog.