OT: EV Charging Stations Stripped of Copper Cables

And how big and heavy does the coil on the car have to be for fast charging?

Another half truth by the industry. It's only cheaper when it works and if you ignore the backup required for when it doesn't and the extra infrastructure costs required to distribute it. There is growing concern about the cost of distribution network (pylons and wires) that need to be installed to far flung parts of the country and there are already campaigns from the "not in my backyard" groups opposed to this extension to the national grid. Even green environmentalists are complaining about the installation of wind turbines on the sky line in areas of natural beauty. Just wait until we are all forced to have electric central heating and EVs and we use 2x to 3x more electricity and the infrastructure in our urban roads has to be upgraded to meet demand. Decades of disruption and a high cost that has to passed on to the consumer.

Not for long. The UK Government relies on the large amounts of fuel tax from petrol and diesel. As EVs become more popular this tax revenue diminishes. The Government will soon claw it back in one way or another. Road fund tax or pay by the mile toll charges etc.

Are you actually factoring in the extra cost of a EV and depreciation into your mileage costs?

Bless!

Not at today's renewable electricity prices. And disastrous [ depreciation on EVs

If you had any kind

I am a professional engineer with a Cambridge degree in Electrical sciences and a lifetime in engineering design That;s how I do know what I say is true

you'd be aware of that, but you are a

Projection. He's swallowed the eco koolaid. Facts no longer matter, Pure Faith will see him thorough

Oh dear. I suspect I know far more about real science than you do.

It isn't even cheaper then. Some of us have run the numbers...

Per gigawatt a wind turbine is cheaper than a nuclear power station but that ignores

- the shorter lifetime of the windmill

- the capacity factor of the windmill

- the massive maintenance cost associated with a windmill.

Before you even get into the ancillary crap needed to attempt to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear...

Rubbish.

There always are. The grid gets built anyway.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Having local power distribution to keep your household appliances running does tend to trump aesthetic considerations.

The electrical distribution infra-structure has been being extended and enlarged since we got to the point of having national grids at all - and half the cost of the electricity I use pays for the distribution system.

Renewables come in smaller modules than the old coal and gas-fired plants, so they can be put closer to where the power is consumed.

Think about it - though you wouldn't be peddling this fatuous line if you could think. I'm already paying road tolls to use Sydney's freeways.

Electricity isn't susceptible to separate taxation in the way that internal combustion engine fuel is, and the price advantage is in the better efficiency of the energy delivery to the car wheels.

EV's used to be more expensive that combustion-engined vehicle because they were produced in smaller volumes. This isn't true any longer, and - as machines - EV's are quite a bit less complicated. Think about that too if you ever get a brain implant.

But you are happy to ignore the massive costs of providing secure storage for nuclear waste for the hundred's of thousands of years it take for the longer half-life isotopes to decay into stable isotopes.

It's actually a sow's ear. And a nuclear power station is no silk purse.

If you want a flexible power source, a nuclear power station isn't an option.

"The ability of a PWR to run at less than full power for much of the time depends on whether it is in the early part of its 18 to 24-month refuelling cycle or late in it, and whether it is designed with special control rods which diminish power levels throughout the core without shutting it down. Thus, though the ability on any individual PWR reactor to run on a sustained basis at low power decreases markedly as it progresses through the refuelling cycle, there is considerable scope for running a fleet of reactors in load-following mode. European Utility Requirements (EUR) since 2001 specify that new reactor designs must be capable of load-following between 50 and 100% of capacity with a rate of change of electric output of 3-5% per minute. The economic consequences are mainly due to diminished load factor of a capital-intensive plant."

Gas turbine power generators are much more flexible, and pumped and battery storage is even more flexible.

You can need quite a bit of it, but that gets figured into price of renewable energy, even if you aren't aware of it.

Evidence?

When I worked at Cambridge Instruments as an electronic engineer I had to put up with a lot of clowns like you.

They had the delusion that their Cambridge degree was of a different nature to the kind education offered elsewhere in the world - it was heavier on math, but short on connections to reality. The good ones could become useful practical engineers, but it took a year or two of de-programming.

EMI Central Research was less infested with the sub-species, and rather more efficient at the de-programming.

And how many papers have you published in peer-reviewed scientific journals? You post under a pseudonym, so can't make that claim at all.

Of course you do. You have the delusion that your Cambridge degree was of a different and superior nature to the kind education offered elsewhere in the world, but the difference is largely confined to boosting your opinion of yourself and your fellow students, plus a bit of English snobbery about people who get their hands onto the equipment they work on, rather than relying on mathematical modelling.

Care to share ;-)

I find it hard to believe that the revenue costs (per unit of electricity) of a wind turbine exceeds those of nuclear.

Ity is not massive. In fact its trivial How long will the concrete bases of wind turbines last? Will they ever be returned to Green Field Who will pay for it?

Of course it is More lies

Old tech. You can design a reactor to load follow, but it doesn't make best use of capital when you have any hydro

Natrium have a perfectly sound idea for this

Battery storage is to replace the spinning mass of conventional turbiunes,. It has absolutely no ability to keep a solar grid up overnight, or w wind grid operational in a flat calm

And NONE of this gets figured into the PUBLISHED CLAIMS about wind costs, since no wind farm meet the cost of any of it.

Consumers do instead,

As far as I know it is only used for electric buses at moment, and doesn't seem to big or heavy enough to attract attention.

Magnalev trains need to shift a lot more power through the inductive link, and it doesn't seem to make them impractical

Since a car typically spends spends 95% of its time parked, charging doesn't necessarily have to be all that fast.

Aluminium coils do tend to be bulkier than copper coils, but they are quite a bit lighter and cheaper.

If you had any grasp of engineering design I wouldn't have needed to spell this out for you.

Not, I think, to the tune of the >2% of total government revenue fuel tax raises. About £1000/year per household.

It's difficult to tell when the government will be kicked into action. At the moment EVs are less than 5%. When this starts to increase, and LGVs and HGVs become electric, something will have to give. The grid probably :-)

I think iys you that has lost connection with reality Like all peole whi are a little bit smart, you try to make yourself smarter by jumping on technbical bandwagons and parroitig stuff you read somewhere instead of actually doing Real Sums I was an apprentice on the shop floor before I went to Cambridge

Chip on the shoulder eh?

I am a working enguineer. We dont write 'peer reviewed papers' That's for those academics you so despise.

We prioduce designs that work, at acceptable cost, reliability and safety

HUGE chip. Have youread e.g. Karl Popper? Did you understand it?

Its not open to belief. Its open to FACT

But you need to have some understanding of finance and accounting.

If you can borrow money at 5% because there is a 'green' fund, and your income is GUARANTEED by government, you are at a considerable advantage over a nuclear company who has to borrow at market rates, and with a possible premium because the risk of nuclear being stopped by the next government is very real as happened in Germany where Vattenfall EON and RWE successfully sued the german government for billions for breach of contract...

..then naturally the costs will be far higher. But if you remove all the tax breaks, cheap debt, and subsidies ROCS and carbon credits from renewables and compare them on a levelised lifetime basis, then wind is 2-3 times more expensive than nuclear and solar about 5 times.

Just on the basis of the wind and solar farms themselves, not including costs that they don't bear, like battery backup grid extensions long DC interconnectors decommissioning and gas backup

We've needed that kind of repository for some seventy years now, and the late Lou Vance, one of my friends from my time as an undergraduate, spent most of his post-Ph.D. in Australia's CSIRO Synroc project.

So we are going to spend squillions to develop new tech which will still most of the flaws of what we've got now? Grow up.

Ignorant nonsense. Battery-inverter combination are quite fast enough to do it very well, and the first big battery anywhere

If it were big enough, it would. In practice, part of the industrial electricity market is flexible and you seem to be able to negotiate your way through the occasional period of flat calm.

Not that you can cite any such published claim.

More unsubstantiated ignorant assertions. You seem to have adopted Donald Trump's debating style of inventing your "facts" as you go along.

Good point. It will have a lot of copper. While guys are under your car stealing the catalytic converter, they may as well nab the charging coil too.

I'm also a Cambridge educated Engineer. I believe in "real world" engineering.

Yes, but when my EV is away from home. I'm probably on a long journey and require fast charging then.

What do you mean by "unit of electricity" ?

Yebbut not the Universwity eh?

You cant 'real; world' engineer things that have never been built before. Like all renewable grids You have to analyse them from first principles No one ever did bar me,and a couple of other private individuals which is why the whole thing is such a f****ng mess.