OT: electric cars (one for Brian?)

I believe rules are to be introduced for electric cars to be fitted with sound generators so pedestrians can hear them coming. I believe this has been the subject of a campaign.
Yesterday I was thinking about this and it seems to me you can hear the sound of the tyres before hearing the sound of the engine. Is a sound generator needed?
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not when wummin drivers run into you at low speed ....
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fecked if I'm fitting it to my lecy 15.5 mph moped.....If I have to all pushbikes should have to ....
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On Sat, 18 May 2019 09:33:10 +0100, "Seaside digs ..."

When I was a kid in the 1950's I understood it was a legal requirement for push-bikes to be fitted with a bell. If that's still true, nobody seems to take any notice and it's obviously not enforced. You could also get a noise-generator that fitted onto the front forks and had a bit of semi-rigid plastic that stuck out into the spokes, making a noise as you cycled along something a moped.
--

Chris

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Chris Hogg wrote:

... when sold.
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Not as far as I know, I don't even think hey have to have lights or brakes either. Its up to the owner to make sure that they comply when they put them on the road. Mind you the electric vehicles are supposed to be being made with a sound that they output under a certain speed, but the idiots have made it able to be turned off, and no legislation for existing vehicles. Having said all of that the most irresponsible of people are a few of those using mobility vehicles, the ones you sit in and you find parked across footways near shops or charging down the road laden with shopping bags.
Brian
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That's not the worst of it. I've had elderly people in mobility scooters drive full-tilt into me (either going forwards or backwards) in the aisle of a supermarket. And it damn-well hurts: one time I had a huge bruise on my thigh for several days after. Some people are really not safe in charge of *any* vehicle, even one that can only go at a fast walking pace.
The worst is that *I* am the one who gets the blame - "why did you get in my way?" ("No, you drove into me without seeing me").
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On 19/05/2019 07:53, Brian Gaff wrote:

Yesterday I had to jump out of the way of an electrci mobility 'scooter' that was belting along the pavement at quite a speed, much faster than I could run at.
It was being driven by someone in his 30's, not the usual age group you would expect.
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On 19/05/2019 15:06, Andrew wrote:

Illegal then, pavement scooters must be limited to 4mph max.
Road scooters can go faster but I think 15 mph is the upper limit.
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On 19/05/2019 15:06, Andrew wrote:

Er, yes - the main users around my way are not the aged!
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Bloody ponce!
A folded Park Drive packet stuck between the Sturmy Archer three speed cable and rear fork used to work effectively and was cost free. I do recollect thinking at the time that I was doing my bit to save the planet not going for those plastic gismo's. :-)
The Park Drive packet had the advantage that it became dust or was thrown off the bike at around the same time as the rider got sick of the stupid racket.
AB
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I think the sound of the tyres is audible in quiet places and at faster speeds, its slow speed in a town crammed with noisier vehicles that you need a sound really. After all even a slow speed collision is going to be very bad for an elderly person. One has to remember that there are a lot of people who have hearing impairments out there. I'd also like to see designers of towns make abundantly clear via signage for a driver that the raised tables being fitted at the entrances to side roads are giving pedestrians priority over vehicles. There have been a lot of nasty accidents where people with poor sight have been run down. The current law says that it is up to the driver and pedestrian to make eye contact with each other and negotiate who has right of way. That is completely stupid in my view so many people have poor sight and a busy parent and children trying run about is a recipe for disaster if its not clarified. Brian
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On Sun, 19 May 2019 08:02:00 +0100, "Brian Gaff"

Are you sure? Rule 170 says 'Watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way'. This must be one of the most disregarded rules in the Highway Code along with the ban on parking in cycle lanes. .
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On 18/05/2019 09:59, Chris Hogg wrote:

That's so you can pretend you're riding a motorbike, not to warn pedestrians.
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Max Demian

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On Sat, 18 May 2019 11:31:11 +0100, Max Demian

Quite, but it also achieved that result.
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Chris

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Yes we used to use an old bit of plastic like an evo stick spreader for that!
One other problem which hopefully will be gotten rid of is the shared space ethos where the idea is that drivers are going to go slowly as there are pedestrians everywhere. It does not work, what actually occurs is that the aggressive driver simply intimidates pedestrians and everyone else and treats the whole thing as a road. Maybe we are just not as obedient as the Dutch and the Scandinavians where this idea started or more likely, people just avoid such places like the plague if they are on foot. Another way to kill off the high street. If you want to see mayhem, go to Exhibition Road in London. I used to enjoy going to the museums there, but many people tell me they cannot go on their own, they need to be mob handed to get any hope of not being either left standing on the sidelines or mowed down by a truck. Whose bright idea was that? Brian
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The reason why shared space is fundamentally wrong in my experience is that there is no *one* road user who has defined priority over all others - in normal roads, either cars have priority over pedestrians (the default situation) or else pedestrians have priority over vehicles at designated places (zebra crossings, pelican crossings). But to make everyone equal means that cars have to drive at an absurdly low speed everywhere that there is someone who *might* cross and who might step into the road without even stopping and checking whether there is a vehicle close with whom you need to establish eye contact for the driver to communicate "I have priority over you, but I will let you cross".
I'm only talking about stopping to let a person cross who hasn't yet stated; if a person has already started to cross and looks as if they won't step back onto the kerb, I will move heaven and earth to stop, irrespective of who has priority, and that is why 30 mph or even 20 mph limits exist, to allow for that situation, of unplanned stops.
If a car does stop to let a blind person cross (as shown by their white stick and/or guide dog) what is the preferred method of the driver letting the pedestrian know that he is stopping or has stopped? Should I (the driver) do nothing and let the blind person work out by the absence of the noise of my car that I have stopped? With a sighted person, I'd probably flash my headlights - OK, that can be confusing because it is official a visible version f the horn, ie a warning, but it had become a de facto standard.
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On 19/05/2019 12:01, NY wrote:

Try hitting a pedestrian and then find out who has priority.

Whats wrong with winding the window down and telling them?
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I think you will find that is exactly the design concept. If you take away the idea of 'priority' everyone has to take care.
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No they don't. They merely intimidate pedestrians into getting out of their way in fear of their lives. By convention, people drive so as to make wandering across the road at will unsafe. But there is no legal basis (on most roads) for this priority.

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Roger Hayter

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