OT: Electric cars; how green are they?

Bearing in mind that electric cars have to be recharged from mains electricity, and that in the UK this is produce substantially from rather inefficient coal-burning power stations, roughly what is the equivalent CO2 emission per mile of these cars, and how does it compare with a good modern small diesel or a hybrid car?
Presumably, over the next few decades as carbon capture technology is more widely adopted (if it ever is), and more nuclear and renewable power comes on-stream, things will get better, and they've got to start somewhere....
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Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
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You seem to be assuming that "carbion capture" is a sensible and economic thing to do. It is neither of those. How many gigatons are you hoping will be captured?
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On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 00:18:53 -0800 (PST), Matty F

I did say 'if it ever is', which I hoped would introduce an appropriate level of scepticism. In your case, obviously it didn't.
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Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
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Chris Hogg wrote:

The G-Wiz claims to emit 63g CO2/km at the power station for a typical generation mix
http://www.goingreen.co.uk/store/content/gwiz_techspec /
Or you can switch your electricity supply to a green supplier and get "virtually" 0g CO2/km, get you a free halo, but presumably then you're not allowed to drive past any stationary windmill?
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On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 08:30:43 +0000, Andy Burns

Thank you for that.
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Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
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Snag is the G-Wiz has no equivalent in a diesel or petrol car which makes such figures a bit pointless.
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*The statement above is false

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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much like they were saying:

Aixam, Ligier and similar French-style Voitures sans Permis? Trouble is, they don't have official CO2 figures, as they're not required for the B1 quadricycle vehicle class...
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Those vehicles are actually larger and better made then the G-Wizz, and they are capable of providing some protection in a crash. Not much though since none of the manufacturers seems to want to have them NCAP tested.
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It's probably the enormous mass of the batteries - that would provide a helluva lot of inertia in a crash.
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There's the Peel P50.
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I've actually driven one, many years ago. Didn't it have a Villiers 197 two-stoke - so gawd knows what the emissions were.
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*Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Chris Hogg wrote:

Have you read the 'dust-to-dust' report: http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf
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Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his
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I don't have time for 450 pages!
Is there a summary
tim
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"Prius's suck".
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Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 32nd day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3176
"Always mount a scratch monkey."
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Or, since we are not grocer's: "Priuses suck"
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Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
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On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:25:12 +0000, Tim Streater

Or even "Prius' suck".
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Frank Erskine

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UK coal-fired generation releases 1007kg of CO2 per MWh http://www.modernpowersystems.com/story.asp?sectionCode &storyCode 58117
A Tesla car consumes 135 Wh/km. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster
1007kg/1 MWh is 1.007g/Wh
The Tesla is emitting 136g/km, provided we omit transmission losses and idling losses from the coal-fired plant.
The average CO2 emission figure for the new car fleet is 150g/km. http://www.green-car-guide.com/articles/average-new-car-co2-emissions-fall-under-150-gkm-co2-.html
So the Tesla would be in band E (131-140g/km) for tax if it were properly labelled for its emissions. Tesla have been claiming that the cars emissions are "equivalent to 120 mpg" that seems to be untrue. The car is actually achieving the equivalent of 50mpg. The Audi TT 2.0 TDi Quattro manages the same emissions.
It's notable that the Tesla doesn't meet the EU target for reduction in CO2 emissions by 2015, so it's not a "car of the future" it's a very average car as far as emissions go. The G-Wizz isn't a car BTW so figures claimed for that are pointless. The G-Wizz is a quadricycle and is closer to an invalid carriage in design and execution than to a car.
Unsurprisingly manufacturers of electric cars are very coy about releasing the actual energy consumption figures for their vehicles.
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wrote:

http://www.green-car-guide.com/articles/average-new-car-co2-emissions-fall-under-150-gkm-co2-.html
My concerns are about the materials used in the batteries. How green are their origins?
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At some point, they'll all have been dug out of the ground?
On the other hand, somewhat earlier, they were all synthesised in giant exploding fusion reactors in space.
Take your pick.
#Paul
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John wrote:

dont be stupid. What does green origins mean?
Like everything else, its dug out the ground in big dirty messy mines and processed chemically to produce pollutants.
Same as having a field of cows produces a ton of stinking bullcrap every day, so does the green industry.
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