OT d-i-y anti blood clot

[john.west]

The scariest thing to my mind is having a stroke. A friend of ours fit as a fiddle has one out of the blue, now he can't walk properly and can't talk properly. So if you are unlucky and are waiting for an ambulance to turn up, does the advice to take an aspirin work (or alcohol) or is there something else one can do? I understand that areas in Latin America that have the lowest number of strokes consume cocoa regularly. (cocoa powder for cooking made into a hot drink). So my question is: is it worth trying to get hold of some anticoagulant as a standby precaution?

[Chris Hogg]

Read 'The Wine Diet' by Prof. Roger Corder. He argues that proanthocyanidins (don't ya just love that word) in high-tannin red wines (mostly old-world wines given long maceration times, not just any old red wine), or high-cocoa chocolate and some other foods reduce the occurrence of heart attacks and strokes.

Being a T2 diabetic I'm more at risk of having a heart attack than the most, so I follow it diligently, and it's very enjoyable (hic!).

[whisky-dave]

It'd be a bit late after the stroke wouldn't it. And of course thinning yuor blood with such things might go too far and yupor blood might not be able to clot causing an annurisuim I think that's what happened to my father.

[GB]

Probably, too late if there's a sudden and massive blockage. However, if there are some warning signs it might help.

There are two types of stroke: a) due to blockage, which is the most common (ischaemic), or b) due to a burst blood vessel (haemorrhagic). The treatments are the opposite, ie a blood thinner for the clot or a clotting agent for the burst. That's why the NHS has concentrated acute stroke services in London to a few (four, from memory) centres. The aim is to get a scan done within an hour, so you get the right treatment.

If there's a blockage which starts as partial, restricting the blood flow, the aim is to stop it getting worse. Consequently, if you have to self-medicate, the advice seems to be to take a 300mg aspirin.

I am not an expert. This is all info picked up from my DW who works in this area.

[Simon Mason]

100% chocolate, garlic cloves, beetroot juice and V8.

[ss]

I have had a heart attack 7 years ago yet never had high blood pressure or high cholesterol, anyhow as a precaution I have to take a junior aspirin every day so my medication is to prevent a clot. I have also read that everyone should take a junior aspirin before flying. (leg thrombosis)

[Chris Hogg]

I forgot to add a link: available through the Advanced Book Exchange from several S/H bookshops, for not-a-lot

You may be able to contact the bookseller directly. You certainly used to be able to, but then ABE don't get commission, so I imagine they no longer make it easy.

There is of course the boring but nevertheless true stuff, about getting your weight down to below say 11 stone, taking exercise, not smoking, eating lots of vegetables, eating red meat only twice a week etc. etc. none of which involve pills or superfoods.

[The Natural Philosopher]

can do, but serious doses of aspirin are as good as it gets.

[whisky-dave]

Might help if those warning signs are seen then they'd be a lot less strokes then.

SO how to you take precautios for both oppersites ?

Whioch my father was doing although I don't know at what level. Like you' he;'d read things and ordered asrin from a newspaper as the local chemist wouldn't give him them. At one point the doctor came to see him and told him to ditch all the pills/asprin he'd brought. He did then brought more to replace them apparently. Then he started to get serious head aches due to falling over he had bruising on the heat into his brain and that's what killed him because his blood was too thin to clot quickly enough that's what the post motem found anyway.

[harry]

It's Coca not cocoa they consume in South America

The locals use it in traditional medicine. There's no proof it's good for anything.

[Andrew]

Keep snakes ?.

Notably the breed that is used to manufacture the snake venom clot-busting drugs that are (or used to be) used by the NHS.

Other than avoiding smoking, and getting overweight all you can do is get enough exercise and eat proper food. Administering clot busting drugs is not DIY, even if you were still actually able to consider it.

A quarter of a standard aspirin a day (75 mg) might help, plus beetroot juice for those who aren't repulsed by the taste.

Eating fermented soya beans (Natto) might be beneficial according to Kate Quilton on C4 Food Unwrapped.

[Andrew]

I would suggest having a blood count to see what your own normal white cell and platelet counts are.

If you are the sort of person where your normal levels are near the top end of the normal range then I would be tempted to suggest that you are more at risk from strokes and/or heart disease. So even more important to avoid getting overweight or smoking.

[Broadback]

Some years ago I had a heart attack. The only difference between a heart attack and a stroke is where the clot cuts off the blood. anyway after very thorough examination I was found to have the arteries and heart of a much younger man, it was a puzzle. Then my heart started beating an irregular rhythm, this it seems was the cause. I was put on Warfarin, which was a PITA. after while they changed it to Dabitran, which was much less intrusive. I have no idea when the heart "miss beats" Incidentally as soon as I got into the ambulance they gave me asprin.

[Andrew]

In Sweden every adult carries a soluble aspirin which is administered to anyone who has symptoms of a heart attack while waiting for the ambulance.

[Brian Gaff]

Well it depends. If you have a bleed, then no don't use it, if its a clot then yes, sadly its hard to tell as the symptoms are the same from an observers point of view. use anti coagulant on a bleed and you might kill them. Brian

[Andrew]

Anticoagulants do *not* thin the blood. I'm amazed how many people in the medical profession propagate this myth.

Anticoagulants either interfere with the platelets normal reaction to a cut or injury, where they literally stick together and plug the damage (Aspirin), or they act on the clotting mechanism that follows on from the initial wound and slow down or intefere with the intermediate steps that result in strands of polymerised fibrin getting intermeshed with the platelet plug (Warfarin and others).

Neither aspirin, nor warfarin have any effect on your blood viscosity, but if your normal red cell count is at the top end of normal then this will increase the blood viscosity which is another added risk factor as you age.

People whose age, lifestyle or genetics results in the deposition of the wrong sort of cholesterol along the walls of their blood vessels are at risk from strokes when blood platelets and white cells get stuck on these adhesions, ultimately causing a stroke.

Think fatbergs in the sewers with added wetwipes and tampons and you've got the picture.

[Brian Gaff]

That is because heart attacks are a heart struggling to get enough oxygen from the blood supply and normally this is due to a clot or a blockage due to furring up, but in the brain if a blood vessel punctures and bleeds it can cut of circulation but also floods the area with blood, if you have a blood thinner stopping the blead is far harder. See my other post. My mother died of a bleed, after a stroke so you cannot win sometimes, if the chips are down, its all a lottery. Brian

[Andrew]

Sometimes people can be bleeding as a result of the clotting mechanism being adversely affected by massive infections or other issues.

Sometimes heparin is administered at the same time as pouring in platelet concentrates and fresh frozen plasma (to replace the intermediate clotting factors). The patient has used generally used up 8 of his 9 cat lives when this situation arises, and your chances of survival are greatly enhanced if you are being treated in a teaching hospital.

[Clive George]

11 stone presumably for a short-arse? I'm over that but people normally describe me as thin.

[Nightjar]

On 12-Jan-17 3:18 PM, Andrew wrote: ...

75mg dose enteric coated aspirin are available over the counter.