ODPM admits Part P consulation flawed

[Ian White]

Is it still called 'Part P' in Scotland? The scotland.gov.uk search engine failed to reveal it.

[Andrew Gabriel]

The Scottish part letters are out of sync with the English/Welsh ones, e.g. I think English Part L is Scottish Part J, or some such. Scotland did their Part P equivalent perhaps 4 years ago, but it doesn't have all the inappropriate bureaucarcy and is stunningly sensible in comparison. Can't remember what Scottish part it comes under, sorry. The Scottish BCO I talked to during the Part P consultation seemed to think theirs worked well, and thought Part P was completely barmey and unworkable (as did my local English BCO).

[Lurch]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 11:07:10 GMT, Tony Bryer strung together this:

Not the joining and exam fees.

[Ed Sirett]

Yes but not 'certified', they could be a bit out but more than a few percent I would think.

[raden]

In message , Nick Atty writes

Didn't you mean April 1st ?

[raden]

In message , James writes

Sorry, you can't have electricians invading my domain thank you very much

[Mike]

I think that should just about cover the liability insurance but the guy wants to make a living as well. I think it's usually nearer six hundred up. Ours was quoted as £1500 (large semi-derilict farmhouse) so I asked the vendor for a weekend access (not a happy bunny) and did it all myself. Haven't found anything major I missed yet, though everything was a bit worse than at first glance of course.

[Owain]

"Ian White" wrote | >| I see that B&Q have a small notice by the electrical bits...saying | >| you should consult Building Control or look at the ODPM website. | >I shall have to look for that next time I'm in a (Scottish) B&Q ... | Is it still called 'Part P' in Scotland? The scotland.gov.uk search | engine failed to reveal it.

It doesn't exist in Scotland, so isn't called anything. The equivalent is Part N:

N2.1* An electrical installation must be constructed, installed and protected to minimise the risk of fire in the building or elsewhere. In normal operation, taking into account the surroundings, it must not create the risk of burns, shock or other injury to people. It must - a. safely accommodate any likely maximum demand; b. incorporate suitable automatic devices for protection against overcurrent or leakage; and c. have switches, or other means of isolating parts of the installation or equipment connected to it, as are necessary for safe working and maintenance.

in the Technical Standards:

(N2.1) The requirements of N2.1 will be met where an installation complies with the relevant requirements of BS7671: 1992.

This does not restrict the housholder to IEE Regs as long as he can demonstrate an equivalent alternative way of complying with the legislation.

At the moment.

The IEE Wiring Matters magazine was insinuating there'll be a similar scheme in Scotland soon, as it's such a good idea.

Owain

[Mike]

inspectors?

didn't say anything about

Notifying them involves a fee unforunately and they will ask "for plans of what you are doing". Presumably that means some form of diagram.

doing anything...?

If he's confident you are doing it properly then yes. If not then he can ask for calculations (you pay) or testing (he pays out of your fee - at least in theory)

[Mike Harrison]

Lets just hope they wait and see the increase in deaths and injuries part P will inevitably cause. Have you seen how crappy most extension leads you can but on the high street are these days..?

[Andrew Gabriel]

I think that might be right, providing it is a national standard which has been brought in line with the EU harmonised standard, as BS7671 has (there was a vague hint at this somewhere in the Part P consultation). Certainly, France doesn't seem to object to ex-pats/holiday homes who've wired the houses as per BS7671.

[Mike]

Well if I don't finish before April and it is confirmed that I do have to get them in even though I started before Part P was a twinkle in some bureaucrats eye, I think I'll shove in a few continental sockets on dedicated radials from the CU to see what they say.

Perhaps I'll even leave the earth off one and call it an Italian socket :-)

[Paul Barker]

I'm corgi reg'd and our heads are in a spin with this. Last discussion

had with corgi was "plug your boilers into a 3 pin socket that alread exixts and use a wireless thermostat". There's going to be a hell of lot of wander leeds running up through the loft hatch....

Fitted a replacement domestic hot weater cylinder (what most peopl seem to call their boiler) as an emergency yesterday. She didn' previously have an immersion heater, and no way she's getting one fro me, and all the sparky's in our town are smuggly turning down any o this kind of work I offer them.

s'pose I'll just have to bang boilers on the wall, pipe up the gas tightness test and then say to customer, let me know when you've foun a sparky to give it a shock and I'll come back to commission it.

Customer looks like the looser once again.

What the heck why should I buy a grands worth of electrical test gea when I already spend that kind of money frequently in my own trade.. flue gas analyser... powerflush..

-- Paul Barker

[Andrew Gabriel]

I was in a wholesalers yesterday trying to buy a T5 fluorescent tube. There were two electricians ahead of me in the queue, and Part P was the topic of discussion. Both have now dropped all domestic work, and have already found themselves fully booked up with commercial work for many weeks. One was buying lots of modular ceiling lighting with which he was obviously not too familiar, the other was buying parts to relamp a car park. I imagine they both used to do immersion heaters...

[Owain]

"Mike Harrison" wrote | >The IEE Wiring Matters magazine was insinuating there'll be a similar | > scheme in Scotland soon, as it's such a good idea. | Lets just hope they wait and see the increase in deaths and injuries part P | will inevitably cause.

AIUI formulation of new B Regs for Scotland has been delegated/devolved/handswashed of down to a Body rather than being left in the hands of elected representatives. Given the Scottish Parliament's delight in smothering the population in cotton wool, I'm sure the "if it saves just wan wean" argument will prevail.

| Have you seen how crappy most extension leads you can but on the | high street are these days..?

I think Tesco has 4-way strips furra pound. Being Tesco I'm hope they're not crap.

Owain

[Owain]

"Mike" wrote | Well if I don't finish before April and it is confirmed that I do | have to get them in even though I started before Part P was a | twinkle in some bureaucrats eye, I think I'll shove in a few | continental sockets on dedicated radials from the CU to see what | they say. | Perhaps I'll even leave the earth off one and call it an Italian socket :-)

three-phase electric shower in the bathroom? :-)

Owain

[John]

Haven't you kept up to date with the latest crazy ideas? CORGI and OFTEC registered installers will be able to take an addendum to their assessment certification which entitles them to "install an additional socket" presumably to serve a new boiler location but AFAIK there still isn't a definition about by who and how the thermostat controls wiring is installed. It really is a monumental c*ck-up that only Prescott and his department could have produced. It beats me why the general public still haven't picked up on all this and started to kick up a stink about the blundering mess.

[Mike Harrison]

Yeah, right. I'd never trust a cheapo strip to carry 13A without melting. I saw one recently which very nearly caused a fire - it was only quick thinking by the user that stopped it. .

[Ian White]

Thanks for the information, Owain.

Not good in the long term, then, but there's still a grace period before Part whatever-it-is arrives in Scotland. Well, that's kind of good news (see sig).

[Stefek Zaba]

recently which

And the relevance to Part Pee is what, exactly?

Part taking-the-Pee only affects *fixed* wiring - y'know, good ol' single-core 2.5mmsq T&E running behind the sockets. Nothing at all to do with the appliances wot get plugged in. Even though they're the majority cause of electrical fatalities and injuries...

Actually there *is* a link to Part-taking-the-Pee. Adding sockets to an existing circuit happens to be non-notifiable, unless it's in a kitchen, but there's little chance NICEIC scare-mongering and B&Q disclaimers will make that clear. So some people will prefer to plug in several cheap-n-nasty multiways, rather'n adding "proper" socketses.

Still, it won't bother Johnny "two nannies" Prescott, will it? (Or should that be David "two nannies and a visa each" Blunkett"? ;-)