It seems since the advent of 'Part P' that most electrical work done as DIY will require testing / certification by a qualified electrician.
The Part P document contains copies of model forms (of Certification) which contain the words, "........design, construction, inspection and testing of the work."
Since DIY work will not have been designed or constructed by the qualified electrician employed to do the final testing how extensive and thorough is the testing likely to be?
And what would be a fair and reasonable cost for such testing? (West Midlands).
Any advice or information from anybody with experience of this new minefield very welcome!
It's not your problem -- you just do the building notice application. The council is responsible for testing it (or subcontracting the testing, and it will probably cost them more than the building notice costs you).
So any competent person can do the work? (ie is allowed to?). I read the occasional post here about the new "Prescott" regulations and it seems only he knows who is allowed to do what where afa electrical work in the home is concerned. This is very worrying as Precott doesn't even know how to speak properly, in a manner of speaking, so to say, if you see what I mean. Which is quite remarkable for a politician. Has he got 16thEd, CGLI 2391, BS 7671? Never mind, I'm sure all the combpys have. Rant ends. Have a nice day.
It's up to the council who they employ. There is no requirement on them employing Part P approved companies. They can even choose to accept your own testing if they think you are suitably competent (and has been reported here, have done so in some cases).
Some councils were claiming that you needed to arrange and pay for the installation to be tested, but this is incorrect as the building notice fee is supposed to cover that. I heard that the ODPM wrote to councils pointing this out (Hugo Nebula might know more about this).
When I phone one of the ones round here about this they told that I will have to pay additional fees. Unfortunately I hadn't got 'chapter and verse' to reply back with.
Just today I spoke to my local building control dept, enquiring about the building notice charge for some work that also will involve electrical work under Part P. They informed me that if the electrical work was not carried out by a 'competent person' then I would have to pay for an electrician to do the testing of the electrical work on top of the £196 charge for the building notice. How should I argue the case for the electrical inspection being included in the building notice charge, bearing in mind that I don't particularly want to piss off the building inspector before I've even started?!
What is your source that states that the council is responsible for the testing as part of the building notice submission?
Well, I didn't have a concrete source, just putting together various tidbits I had picked up in conversations, but amasingly Google finds it quite definitively...
From
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"There have been reports that some local authorities are asking householders to have electrical installation work inspected, tested and certificated by someone other than the person carrying out the work. Section 33(2) of the Building Act 1984 (which would give power to local authorities to require persons carrying out building work to carry out such reasonable tests, at the person's expense, of or in connection with the work for the purpose of enabling local authorities to ascertain whether the work complies with the requirements of the Regulations) has not been commenced. This means in our opinion that local authorities do not have the power to require householders to retain an electrician to test and certificate the work in accordance with BS 7671. Local authorities which have adopted such a practice should discontinue it immediately."
Also note the bit further down that page which says:
"Local authorities should ensure that charges for checking full plans applications or building notices and carrying out inspections of building work, including that relating to Part P, are pre-fixed in their charges scheme as required by the Building (Local Authority Charges) Regulations 1998. Authorities do not have powers to reassess a fixed charge, which they have levied for a particular application or notice, during the course of the work."
IOW the building notice fee is the only fee you should have to pay.
==================== Thanks to everybody for their contributions.
In the light of Andrew Gabriel's reply I asked my local Council for their views on the matter. What they said largely confirms the information given in this NG. They stated that I can get an independent electrician to certificate my work if I want to but this is not obligatory. I would be responsible for the entire cost of testing and certification.
They stated that I could apply directly to the Council to do the testing etc.This would mean that they would be obliged to check the work themselves or appoint an independent electrician to do the checking on their behalf. The cost for the application would be £70-00 + VAT with no extra cost for the testing (thus confirming what Andrew Gabriel said).
They also stated that it would be best for me (having already completed the work) to apply for a 'Regularisation Application'. The process of testing and checking would be the same apart from the cost. In this case there is a 'fine' payable for not having the work pre-approved. The cost for this would be £70-00 BUT no VAT. A 'fine' would be added at a rate of 20% of the cost of the works up to a value of £1000-00. This partly confirms the information provided by Ed Sirett, that extra fees are payable but only for a late application (Regularisation Application).
I am expecting the application forms in this morning's post and will check that I've got the details correct.
In the light of Ben Willcox being asked for £196-00 (mine is £70-00 + VAT) does anybody know if Councils can set their own rates or is there a fixed common charge?
Just to clarify, I was told that this charge varies on a sliding scale depending on the estimated cost of the works. The building inspector I spoke to said my work (which includes other non-electrical stuff) would fall within the 2,000 to 5,000 pound bracket, hence the 196 (inc VAT) charge. I would also be interested to know how the charges vary by region though... Incidentally I am also in the West Midlands, Telford & Wrekin to be precise.
The problem I have with all of this is that there appears to be no method (short of judicial review) of getting the council to meet their obligation to test or otherwise arrange certification so that a completion certificate can be issued. My local authority (Swindon) are quite happy for me to make a BCN application, won't charge me any extra but I can't get a completion certificate as they have nobody able to test the work. Therefore whilst I am compliant I am still stuffed if I try to sell the house since there will be an open building control notice on file without a completion certificate.
The only way I can find round this (short of ignoring the law - which is what I've done for some temporary circuits I'm using while carrying out some structural work) is to get a NAPIT electrician to come and look at my 1st and 2nd fix and issue an installation certificate under his part P self certification. It has to be NAPIT as NICEIC refuse to allow their members to work in this way although it is clear from conversations I've had with ODPM that they believe this to be perfectly acceptable.
Incidentally I've also had the ODPM speak and write to Swindon Borough Council but it doesn't seem to be getting me very far in practical terms.
Moral is, check that you have a route to a completion certificate before sending in your BCN.
Complete house rewire by non-Part P person so I had to go to local council and get building control involved. Charged £56.75. Council then get local firm of electricians to do an inspection at first fix, then full and final test and inspection when job completed. Council gets charged £200 by local firm. This is in Preston, Lancashire.
Looks like it will only be a matter of time before the whole process of subsidised inspection and testing becomes the norm. With a bit of luck this could lead to the demise of Part-P. 8-) More likely a some new or revised legislation will allow for additional charges. 8-(
At which point it becomes transparent what the purpose of this is. If it was 'saftey' then upping the charge forthe test dosn't encourage compliance. On the other hand if itis a make work scheme on behalf of the electrical mafiosi...
OK, I contacted my council again, armed with the information on the odpm website kindly pointed out by Andrew. Again they insisted that if the work was not carried out by a competant Part P person, I would have to get it certified by an independant qualified electrician. That is the only option as far as they are concerned, and if the work was not carried out in this manner then they could decide to issue an enforcement notice, where I would have to pay to get everything checked out after the fact. They were adamant that they would not issue a building regs completion certificate unless I provided an electrical testing certificate, as above. I quoted the statement on the odpm website, and they said they were unaware of this, but will look into it and get back to me. So I will have to wait and see I guess.
Well they did get back to me. Basically what they said was that in reference to the part of the document on the odpm website that states the building notice fee must be fixed, they are currently revising the fees, and very shortly their fees for electrical testing work for a Part P application will be £277.63. This is IN ADDITION TO the £193.88 fee for the building regs notice for the other parts of the building work. He suggested that I would probably be better off finding an Electrician that would be prepared to check and test my work and issue me with a test certificate, and again confirmed that they would only issue the building regs completion certificate after seeing the electricians certificate (or presumably paying them £277 to do the testing).
So, don't know if other Councils will follow suit, but needless to say I shall just go ahead and do the work myself anyway.
Well, they aren't allowed to charge an additional fee, and I thought the BCO fees were capped by the ODPM anyway (at something around the £100 mark for the lowest price band work). There was a change in a budget a year or two back though -- I didn't hear the details but I think it was something along the lines that councils could now use any profits from their BCO operations to subsidise other council expenditure, whereas before they weren't allowed to make a profit on the BCO operations. Might have that wrong though.
================== I finally received the Form and various explanatory notes for 'Regularisation' this morning but I haven't yet had time to digest the contents. However the cover page of enclosed booklet, 'Building Consultancy Charges' bears this reference: 'The Building (Local Authority Charges) Regulation 1998' - see:
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may or may not provide relevant answers - but it's worth a quick look to see if it's relevant to your case.
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