Electrical Building Regs etc..

My local Authority have sent me a notification form with the following text, which I have to confess has me totally baffled.
Quote/Extract: Notifiable Electrical Installations. The design, installation, inspection and testing of the electrical installation must be carried out in accordance with BS7671:2001. Before the Council can issue a Completion Certificate the applicant must provide either: 1. Where the installer is registered with Part P competent person self- certification scheme, a Building Regulations compliance certificate, within 30 days of the work being completed, or
2. Where the installer is not registered with a Part P competent person self-certification scheme but qualified to complete BS7671 installation certificates, a Building Regulation application and an appropriate BS7671 installation certificate, or
3. Where the installer is not qualified to complete BS7671 installation certificates, a Building Regulation application.
The only charges shown on the "Building Application form" are: Electrical Installations not covered by Competent Persons Scheme = 170
So, first of all who can complete a BS7671 installation certificate ?
Second, if I read it correctly the Council has less work to do if option 2 applies as opposed to Option 3 but they charge the same price !!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 08:21:36 -0700

<snip>
Anyone who pays the Competant-Person Tax to a Trade Body. Basically, professional electricians, who can't avoid the Tax.

They are not allowed by law to change more for option 3. The Blessed and Holy Saint John (Prescott), patron saint of Electricians, wrote it so. It was the only bit he got right.
R.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Count yourself lucky they are willing to offer option 3. My LA is one of what I gather are the very many who impose the BR charge *and* then require you also to pay for a certificate from a 3rd party. They simply will not sign off any Part P work without one. And, in the absence of direct application of John Prescotts's clunking fist, it is not easy and inexpensive to force them to change their ways.
--
Robin



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2007-10-27 18:51:32 +0100, "Robin"

Have you discussed it with your MP?
The faceless grey bureaucrats of the town hall are akin to woodlice. Lift the rock which hides them and they scurry around trying to avoid the glare of daylight. One of them has decided to do this thinking that he can get away with it. That should be addressed.
If your MP is from the government benches, it should be pointed out to him that the LA is operating in contravention of the government policy on the subject.
If he's a member of the opposition party then he should have an interest in anything involving unnecessary regulation and particular incorrect charging in relation to enforcing it.
In either case, ask him to write to the minister concerned and ask for a copy of the reply. Then send that to the chief exec of the LA.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Andy Hall wrote:

Well, I have taken this up with Cherwell District Council building control, who in their scale of charges put:
Electrical installation checked by Qualified Electrician 70.00 Electrical installation checked by Local Authority 300.00
and the reply I got was:
"The rationale on the Part P fee approach is based on Local Authorities having the authority to recover it's costs in performing its function. The 70.00 is purely an administrative charge and the 300.00 fee is based upon an inspection carried out by one of our representatives.
It would be the same situation if we used outside consultants to carry out some of our work on our behalf, we would include that cost to us within the set fee. Local Authorities have the jurisdiction to set fees to recover their costs."
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
TheOldFellow wrote:

My BCO is perfectly happy for me to do it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
TheOldFellow wrote:

Shame the electricians did' frame a regulation limiting the framing of regulations to persons who have some relevant qualification, and have passed the relevant tests.
Gosh, Have I struck on somethng?
All MP's to tke a course in practical governance, and those disqualified must stand down? Ministers to have an IQ test and be disallowed from cabinet office if their IQ is less than 70?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Back on topic though:.......
Are these standard forms and if so where do you get them from : "BS7671 installation certificates" "Building Regulations compliance certificate"
Andy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

See the previous comments about joining the "club" in order to procure for example http://www.niceic.org.uk/other-downloads/nroot/niceic/other-downloads/1dcn4_cert_scrpdf.pdf
I've no idea whether they can be had in the (right) pub and if so at what price. The pubs around here are too full of drugs and guns for me to ask.
--
Robin



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

http://www.niceic.org.uk/other-downloads/nroot/niceic/other-downloads/1dcn4_cert_scrpdf.pdf
Bother. I forgot I had also found TLC sell some (see http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BKD10.html ) but I don't know just what you get and whether LAs accept them.
--
Robin



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
ac1951 wrote:

Published in BS7671 itself among other places. Versions certainly used to be available from the IEE site as a Word document download. I am sure I have electronic copies somewhere if you want. I tend to use the test results sheet more than any of the others, since it is a handy way of recording results.

From your BCO.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
ac1951 wrote:

A person or persons qualified to certify the design, installation, and inspection and test of the installation, typically with the relevant City & Guilds qualifications.
Owain
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Owain wrote:

I wonder what the response would be if one simply completed the certification themselves and submitted it. One could argue that C&G qualifications are not the only test of competence. (and experiance would suggest they are certainly no guarantee of it!)
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

OK, I'm an apprentice serverd electrician with C&G qualifications and an HNC/HND in Electrical engineering and spent 15 yrs in the trade, but for the last 20yrs I have trained and work on Computer Infrastructure (Networks and Hardware {servers, desktops etc}
Enough of blowing my own trumpet ...... I don't understand what I'm missing (other than brushing up on the latest regulations) that prevents me from making changes to the electrical installation at an house I have bought to re-furbish and either sell-on or rent out..
Q. Can I declare myself as competent to sign off a BS7671 installation certificate.
Q. What would I have to do to become Part P approved
.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
ac1951 wrote:

Don't know...
(I would be happy to an argue the toss ;-)

Pay for membership of one of the part P approved fan clubs and meet whatever entry requirements they have.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:17:35 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Which will usually be...
have insurance (hundreds a year) have calibrated test gear (hundreds) and say £100/yr thereafter. pay the club subscription (hundreds) have a suitable qualification (hundreds) / 5yr.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 27 Oct,

Only after spending dosh on 'calibrated' test equipment. I'd rather go by my megger (which I ( and prolly you) can easily calibrate against known resistances) and was constricted around 1928) than rely on a calibration cert from a ISO whatever company.

As above, but also give loads of dosh (known elsewhere as a bribe) to one of the 'approved'[2] organisations.
[2] Is that approved, as in the old style approved schools?
--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:17:18 +0100, John Rumm

Indeed. I've just had a kitchen refit and the electrics were done by a NICEIC-type installer. I didn't complain or comment at the time (because he must know best!), but he joined two bits of a ring circuit with a junction box which he tucked into the ceiling void (subsequently skimmed by a plasterer), and he laid a 6mm T&E straight down the middle of a wall some 3' wide (with no sockets etc as indications of said cable), with no capping or conduit - just laid under the plaster over the blockwork.
From a 'technical' sort of point of view I'm quite happy with his work. The said junction box 'could' be accessed from above, but have you seen the state of my radio shack above the kitchen? :-)
--
Frank Erskine

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2007-10-27 23:42:08 +0100, Frank Erskine

Un-tandy is it?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Un-Realistic.
--
Frank Erskine

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.