Octopus E7 / Smart Meter

[Brian]

We currently have E7 from Octopus with an old style E7 meter. As some will know, the signal the old style meters use is being turned off in March and to continue with E7, you need a new meter.

It seems we are in a ‘dead spot’ for a normal Smart Meter - at least one with the E7 clock- but Octopus have an alternative which offers the same function.

As much as I’m unhappy with Smart meters, the offered function seems to meet our needs and, to be fair, Octopus have always been excellent.

I’m simply curious.

Does anyone have one of these ‘alternative’ Smart Meters with E7? I can’t see any examples on their website. It is possible the user interface is identical and the only difference is how the unit communicates with Octopus.

I thought Smart meters used 4G or similar. AFAIK, we have good 4G coverage for most networks now ( although this wasn’t always so).

Currently, I send readings manual every month or so. It is hardly a burden. If I forget, no big deal, it gets corrected next time.

I also note Octopus have a Mini unit which provides an interface to an app. It isn’t clear if this is an alternative or an optional extra.

[Theo]

I'm not sure what an 'alternative' meter is, but just wondering if it's possible to do your own time switching. ie a regular dual-rate meter plus a standalone time switch to switch your storage heaters / etc at E7 times? I would expect with a smart meter you don't need to worry about clock (and hence E7 start/stop) drift, because the meter's clock will be synchronised with the comms network.

I think all the meters can be single or dual rate, but it's something in the meter's provisioning set up from their end. I have a dual rate meter despite never being on an E7 tariff: this is annoying because they only offer me E7 fixed price tariff quotes - I must see if they can change that.

Not heard of them, but also to note the meters come in two parts: the meter and the comms hub. They can switch out the comms hubs for different sorts if needed, eg one with a better antenna.

Smart meters use 2G mobile signals in the south of England (and Wales I think), and a special purpose radio network run by Arqiva in the north f England/Scotland. Some versions of the comms hub also use mesh networking so that if your house doesn't have signal, the meter can relay messages through a neighbour's meter which does.

It's an optional extra. The smart meter doesn't have an internet connection (for security / robustness / longevity) and sometimes only reports a batch of its readings once a day via the smart meter network. The Mini is just a relay device that gets live readings from the meter and uploads them to the Octopus website via your wifi, so you can see live data in the app rather than having to look at the in-home display. There are also other apps that can download this data from them via the Octopus API.

It's mostly of interest for those who want to analyse their data or to measure performance of individual appliances - for billing purposes the meter's own upload is sufficient (in fact they may not be allowed to use the Mini data for billing).

Theo

[alan_m]

They have the octopus mini which wirelessly communicates with the smart meter and delivers the information over the Internet

https://octopus.energy/blog/octopus-home-mini/ The mini also interfaces to their smart phone app allowing you to see your consumption in near real time (my mini updates the app once per minute)

The mini also connects to the gas meter (via the electric meter???) but only updates every 30 minutes.

Youtube

[Theo]

Forgot to mention it's O2 2G, so check your 2G coverage:

[SH]

wasn't both 2G and 3G networks being switched off?

S.

[Tim+]

Just 2G on O2 I believe (if you’re south of the border). In Scotand they have their own radio network.

An optional extra. It just gathers the same data that would go to your IHD and uploads it to Octopus’s severs when it’s then accessible via their app. Handy for real time consumption data.

Not a substitute for a non-communicating smart meter alas. The only billable data much come via the DCC.

Hopefully one day soon they’ll grasp the nettle of dealing with all the “no smart meter service” areas and find a secure way of doing it through Wi-Fi in a way that “official”.

Tim

[Mike Humphrey]

What's being switched off is the "radio teleswitch" service. This was often used for E7, but it's a bit under-used doing that as it can handle any kind of time-based charging and switching. I had one for THTC, which switched my storage heaters and hot water (separately) at times which varied each day according to the weather forecast, electricity price predictions and sometimes what SSE felt like doing.

Old-style E7 meters have the clock built in (or even older ones have a mechanical clock in a separate unit). These just switch at the same time every day (and may or may not respect daylight saving time), and can't be reprogrammed without an engineer visit. This could be the "alternative" - a non-smart non-radio E7 meter.

Mike

[Andy Burns]

I think all smart meters have to have multiple registers, they can probably remotely reconfigure them from E7 to a single tariff, does your installation require a contactor output to switch e.g. storage heaters?

Depends if you live north (dedicated smart meter network) or south (telefonica/o2 mobile network)

[Andy Burns]

Just 3G for now ...

[Chris Green]

I'm unconvinced, I'm sure our E7 meter doesn't depend on the LW signal, I think it has its own clock.

[Chris Green]

Almost non-exsistent where we are, as I keep telling the suppliers trying to install a smart meter.

[Chris Green]

Through what wi-fi?

[Chris Green]

This is what we have I think (clock built in), it doesn't change with 'daylight saving' I don't think. It would be good if I could find out when it *does* switch back and forth but there seems to be no obvious way to do that except to stand and watch it from midnight onwards!

[Brian]

Not in the short term.

[Brian]

We don’t have storage heaters.

I charge my hybrid on E7.

That said, it made sense without that.

We have good O2 coverage, including 2G. I use it the equivalent of Hive in our motor home.

Thank you for the reply.

[Brian]

The new one will be a fixed time, which is fine. I can just change the timer in the car in the spring and autumn.

[Tim+]

Through the householder’s own Wi-Fi network. Faced with a “no smart meter or a smart meter using your own Wi-Fi” situation, for many folk it would be hugely beneficial to do it through their Wi-Fi.

Tim

[Tim+]

For 3G, Vodafone, EE and Three are turning off this year. O2 by the end of

2025. I’d call that quite short term.

Tim

[Chris Green]

On the other hand if faced with a smart meter or no smart meter because they can't use my wifi I know what my choice will be! :-)

[Tim+]

Your loss! My non-functioning smart meter cost me £100 in excess charges in just one month. Fortunately refunded by Octopus.

Potentially a working smart meter can save some customers a huge amount of money.

Thanks to mine my average electricity cost last month is 10p per kWhr.

Tim