Not using the NHS app

I obviously affects the viability of employers in Switzerland and how much they can pay employees.

Typical Tory one again.

Food and so on is supplied by a vast number of retailers and competition keeps prices down. Nor are you forced to buy either a car or TV.

But then talk about compulsory health insurance. With big pharma companies and those insurers conspiring to keep up prices.

Get out more, Timmy. Look at what happens in the real world before you dismantle something that works - on the whole - pretty well. By all means look into how it can be improved.

This is the real problem with Tories like you. So called principles. Which are more like a religion.

Dear Timmy. There is already private health care available in the UK for those who want it.

But the likes of you want to remove the existing NHS and replace it with private care only. As part of your religion that profit is God.

Thanks for confirming you don't give a stuff who pays for anything. Unless it is you.

IMHO it's impossible for pub staff to enforce (or to be expected to) proper social distancing. You'd need about as many staff as customers.

BTW, many hotspots have indeed been workplaces. Processed meat places being often in the news. Just why, dunno.

In article snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)" snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk> writes

Or look at Germany to see how a private health service could be run.

In message snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk>, at 14:53:04 on Mon, 5 Oct

Just like they've needed that many to enforce bans on smoking?

Lots of workers in close proximity, shouting because it's noisy, and not wearing face coverings because it's impractical.

Some say it's also because they are cold, but many scientists don't believe temperature is a significant factor.

And getting the NHS to pay for all the physical upgrades to their property.

Isn't "standing at the bar" verboten? Not sure about a single person from a table going to the bar to buy, don't social distance queue don't get served.... And isn't it supposed to be booked (to be sure of getting in) socialy distanced table service only anyway?.

That's about the only type of workplace that does appear to have problem. There is a sandwich factory up here somewhere as well, but car sharing by employee's may have something to do with that. When you consider the number of workplaces out there the number with problems is tiny compared to the two, three or more pubs that have problems in almost every town.

Err, rather more obvious is someone is smoking than getting too close to others? Especially when you've no idea if they are allowed close contact like families and those sharing a house etc.

You want to take clues from Germany, now? But not as regards the EU, obviously.

Amazing the way you Tories like to pick and choose regardless.

I take it you only use private medicine Bert, so any improvements at an NHS GP's premises will be of absolutely no benefit to you?

And they can't do anything about aerosols.

Combination of factors. Mostly because those who work there are much more likely to live at higher density at home and so much easier to get infected there and once just one of those shows up at work, impossible to stop it infecting others at work via aerosols. And not possible to test everyone showing up at work and stop them coming to work.

Yes

Not sure about a single person

Waiter service only

don't social distance queue

Even for a drink it's meant to be table service only. Some pubs are booking only for potentially busy times

But is it the pub that is the problem or is it more to do with Track and Trace where a pub is one of the places where you can trace everyone that enters? You don't hear about T&T naming a supermarket as the epicentre of an outbreak because they have no idea who the carrier could have met there.

Thought so. The pubs that have been named and shamed haven't followed those rules...

Fair point but when I'm shopping the longest I'm ever less than 2 m from any other shopper is just a matter of seconds as we walk past each other or perhaps 30 seconds if we both want an item from the same shelf and one of us is dithering. More often than not I'll not encounter that same shopper again. The Bluetooth proximity requires a total >15 *minutes* 0 - 2 m or >30 *minutes* 2 - 4 m to be primed to go off.

One would assume that to pick up the virus one needs exposure levels of that order, rather than a one off, few second, encounter. It's fairly clear that the rules mostly work as not all pubs are hotspots, only those that don't follow the rules.

Whereas one sneeze near the aircon inlet can spread it all over the supermarket

What about being in a supermarket with a recirculated air system? You may only have to be in the supermarket for a much shorter time to be in the constant vicinity of virus laden air :(

Makes no difference with aerosols, you breath that in anyway,

Ditto.

Irrelevant with aerosols.

Stupid assumption with aerosols.

Much more likely that its actually the luck of the draw, which ones end up with an infectious person in it at the time.

Only a fool uses pubs or restaurants currently and only a stupid govt actually encourages their use.

And so does a single infected person.