I asked google, about a mix of propane or butane and acetylene but only got answers around propane butane mixes, I can not believe that people have not experimented but google seem to have decided no one would be interested.
It has probably been tried and not found to be a beneficial mix.
As you probably know, propane and butane have different characteristics- propane is better at lower temperatures (in simple terms) for example. However. Sometimes they mix the two to get the best of both worlds.
Some of the cylinders used in camping etc are a mix of butane and propane. Some are just propane. Ones used indoors tend to be butane- at least the larger ones.
LPG for cars is a mix I believe.
The energy each releases is slightly different which used to be compensated for, at least in some applications, by using different regulators to give different pressures. However, at least in some applications, a common pressure is used and you can switch between the two or use a mix these days.
Having said that, at least for larger cylinders (the exchangeable sized ones), butane tends to be indoors and propane outdoors.
Interestingly, bottled LPG is widely used in France domestically. We?ve hired Gites in the past and found the cooker ran from LPG cylinders. Nearly every supermarket and most garages stock it.
For what reason, just looking for hotter?
Given how acetylene is stored in solution, would a convenient single cylinder mixed with propane or butane even be possible?
Seems the danger of acetylene storage is "tolerated" for oxy/acetylene, where two cylinders mixed at the torch gives you the advantage of controlling oxidising vs reducing flame ... but if you can't control the oxygen in your propane/acetylene (or butane/acetylene) mix would it bring any advantage for the increased risk?
Map gas is a mixture of methylacetylene (propyne) and propadiene what ever they are.
same here in Australi and vehicles run on it
Propyne is C3H4, as is propadiene. They are isomers- ie they have the same formula but the molecule is assembled differently. How that makes a difference when the burn I don?t know/ can?t remember how to work out beyond the basic theory below.
Propane is C3H8, butane C4H10.
There are some rough rules / guidelines re energy you get from from the formula ( you can work it out, here I mean general guides, not numbers).
Butane tends to release more energy than propane due to the longer carbon chain.
Propyne more than propane due to the more complex (double) bounding which is another factor in energy released.
Acetylene is C2H2.
While it has a short chain, the triple C to C bond releases a lot of energy when it burns.
There are other factors* but that is the basic theory, at least as I remember my Chemistry from school.
*eg butane isn?t good at low temperatures so propane is better.Maybe everyone who tried it is dead? Brian
I'm pretty sure that acetylene would react vigorously with butane etc but I don't know what sort of shock you'd need to start it.
Cheers
I suspect that acetylene is just a bit too unforgiving for anyone to want to risk selling a mix to people unused to its fickle behaviour.
+1.
It might help if you said what you were trying to find out.
The reason is very simple. Acetylene has to be dissolved in acetone for delivery because it is unstable and only liquifies at low temperture/high pressures.
Acetylene bottles are filled with a rigid foam and ecatone. This is why they always have to be kept upright in use. If you lay it on it's side and open the vlve, the acetone will run out with acetylene still dissolved but foaming as it comes out. Very dangerous situation.
I don?t doubt what you post etc but not that long ago in the scheme of things, people used acetylene lamps. They were used on the early cars and in caving into the 1970s at least. (I recall seeing some potholers use them in my teens.)
They worked by producing acetylene from the reaction between calcium carbide and water from memory.
I still have my carbide lamp from my pot-holing days in the early
1960's. Made by "The Premier Lamp and Eng. Co. Ltd. Leeds Eng" I don't doubt it would still work perfectly, given a supply of carbide. It used to be available in tall narrow red tins, say 2.5" dia. x 8" long. It was also used in bird scarers and moisture meters.
Yes. We were all handed one of those when visiting the Ice Caves near Werfen in 1999.
SteveW
The point being that carbide lamps produced the gas as they went along so did not involve acetylene under high pressure.
Only relatively recently they gave up selling calcium carbide in Halfords You filled a container with it and adjusted the outflow of acetylene by regulating a water drip into the container.
The only advantage is compared with a battery, an acetylene lamp runs for much longer. Maybe no longer true with LED lamps.
I forget exactly how long you could run a little carbide lamp on one charge of carbide, but about 4-6 hours I think, although you did need to top up the water - not usually a problem in a pothole. Refilling with carbide was also a simple job, although when people knocked out the spent carbide they left little white piles of slaked lime littering the cave. In the late 1960's, ex-NCB NiFe cells started to appear, which you would wear on your waist and would generally give light for longer on one charge if they were in reasonable condition. I doubt that anyone uses anything but LEDs these days - much lighter and the battery should last ages.
My carbide cap lamp is one like this;
I?d quite like one. I remember seeing one as a youngster and being fascinated by the principle.
I am a bit surprised they were on sale relatively recently- at least in the time scale of LED lamps- I was thinking more like 40 years ago but I don?t doubt what you say.
You can still buy carbide for lamps on Amazon, and yes its in a red tin!
Mike
They also produced a small amount of Hydrogen Sulphide ,which gives the bad-egg smell, from impurities in the Calcium Carbide.
The ones I remember were very like the red one in this e-bay advert, sold by 'The Halford Cycle Co.'.
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