Mac Disaster

A label freak! Wickes sell them under their name.

You got it.

Yep.

I don't know.

It isn't.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel
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Incorrect. The company began in Bulgaria as Sparky Eltos AD (maker of small tools) and Sparky AD (manufacturer of agricultural equipment) and manufactures there. The German aspect is simply a corporate office.

They made licensed product after AEG lost its way and its market share and finally offloaded the brand with little value left to TTI.

None that I know.

You are making the mistake of equating DIY tools with price.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Then it is sold as a Wickes product, not a Kress one.

Wickes is a supermarket operation, not a manufacture and service organisation for power tools.

Which takes us back to the original point. Kress has no brand position in the UK.

In terms of a warehouse operation such as Wickes, it is simply one of the means to put a price differential between two product lines. It is irrelevant from the user's point of view if he is buying as a consumer.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Nope. As I said, DIY is not about price. That is but one factor in a whole range of reasons for execution of DIY projects and the purchase of the tools and materials to do so.

Reply to
Andy Hall

...and might well have them manufactured to their own, or bought in as a cheaper, spec' product. Whilst I accept that some 'over priced' tools can sometimes be found under a different label (often owned by the parent company though) [1] it's unlikely that a cheaper brand will be able to offer the same quality fort even less as an unbranded wholesale product - something will have to have given, that will not be the labour cost of making them, unless the manufacturing is shipped out to China or the like.

[1] for hand tools, Snap-on and Blue-point are a good example.

Yes he has, unlike yourself (no surprise there). Would you buy a branded product and the manufactures '#' year warranty scheme or an unbranded product that happens to be made in the same factory but with a limited (by comparison) warranty backed up by a retailers customer service counter, I know I wouldn't unless I considered the tools worth as 'throw-away'.

It is totally irrelevant, Drivel doesn't know his 'sale of goods' laws - no surprise there...

Reply to
:Jerry:

I've told you before Drivel, stop talking about yourself all the time!

Reply to
:Jerry:

I think, to a point, that is irrelevant, there was a time when many of the high quality non UK brands (in what ever field) had no UK brand / market position - that alone doesn't mean the product is rubbish.

Reply to
:Jerry:

It is a "Kress" product.

It is a way of shift product as Wickes area national chain. Kress don't care if the products have their or Wickes name as long as they sell.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

You have been taking Matt pills.

You have been taking Matt pills.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Possibly made to Wickes spec', just as a branded Baked Bean company will also produce (for example) Tesco's own brand, it doesn't mean they are both the same product.

Reply to
:Jerry:

No it doesn't, but is an indicator that the company may well have limited resources. They are very small in this part of the market (low and mid range) with only 300 employees and 700k units per annum.

Contrast this with the major players DeWalt, Makita and Bosch who each enjoy a 15-18% market share.

Makita produced over 1.2M units *just in the UK* last year mainly for export.

In the part of the market that they are in, and the manufacturing locations used, I don't see how Kress can have a viable long term business. Either they will have to move up market or to lower cost manufacturing.

Reply to
Andy Hall

It is a Wickes product.

Given their (lack of) market position, that is probably all that they can hope to achieve.

You really don't understand much about business, do you....

Reply to
Andy Hall

Well by that reckoning many companies must be producing crap...

They didn't always have that...

They didn't always do so...

Your point being what, other than tool / brand snobbery?

Reply to
:Jerry:
[ in reply to 'Drivel' ]

I'm starting to think you don't either!

Reply to
:Jerry:

I didn't say that it was crap, only that this is a very small player in a very competitive market unable to achieve a brand position.

Indeed.

Indicating that something is being done correctly.

It isn't an issue of snobbery, but of sound business principle.

If I were to buy a product at a low end price point, I could take a view on it and consider that it will be a disposable item after the warranty runs out in 2 perhaps 3 years. Certainly the retailer won't be repairing it if there are failures during this time.

I choose not to buy such products, so for me that line of reasoning is irrelevant.

Instead I buy quality products which I expect to last for a long time and to give good results and usability. In the unlikely event of a fault, I will find repairs and spares to be available for many years.

If I buy from a major manufacturer, I can be confident that that will be the case and that they have the financial resources to deliver on service. This is worth a price premium in itself.

If I am going to buy a product from a smaller manufacturer, I am going to look very carefully at their product and business profile and their business viability. I have done this, for example, with Fein, Festool and Lamello and satisfied myself on these points.

When I look at Kress, the alarm bells begin to ring for all of the reasons mentioned above. I am not commenting on whether or not the make a good product. Clearly they aren't in Festool's league or they would be competing with innovative rather than me-too products. OTOH, they don't appear to have the resources of the major players. Despite comments that spares will be available for ten years, that is only true as long as the company remains in business. Given the market sector in which they are trying to operate, which is highly competitive and with some very large players and that they do not appear to have any USPs, I begin to have concerns about their viability.

If the pricing was in the throwaway category one could take a view, but on some items it is not significantly different to something from one of the major manufacturers.

Given all of that, I don't see that it's interesting to buy their products.

Reply to
Andy Hall

On the contrary.....

Reply to
Andy Hall

No. Exactly the same as the Kress badged model.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Matt, you mad.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

None of you do.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

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