In many kitchens I see fused spur switches over worktops which switch switchless sockets under the worktops that supply the appliances, such as washing machine and dishwasher. Is it manadtory to have them there? Can just a switched socket under the worktops be good enough?
TIA
Dunno. But I'd want to be able to turn the appliance off in a hurry, in an emergency, without (a) emptying the cupboard underneath or (b) battling through the smoke from the failed appliance!
There's also the point about isolating the appliance before (e.g.) cleaning it. More likely to actually do it if the switch is readily accessible.
Ther's no actual need to fuse the spur if it's actually a normal 13A socket since there will be a fuse in the plug(top).
Don't most appliances have their own off/on switch? And does the person most likely to be using the appliance know about the isolator? And is it obvious which appliance it refers to?
I prefer to see a plug removed from the socket. No doubt then.
I'm thinking about a fault which *might* require total isolation - e.g. in the wiring before the switch. Paranoid perhaps..
Yes...everyone knows about it. It's immediately above the appliance and it's clearly labelled.
I agree. But less likely to happen given the location of the socket.
No.
Yes, although you should be able to get to it without withdrawing the appliance. I put them in the next cupboard with a hole drilled through large enough to pass the plug through. You don't actually need a switched socket -- an unswitched one is fine.
Thanks. Another quick one. A built-under electric oven takes about 800 to 1000kW. This is suitable for a kitchen ring main. Does the oven require its own 2.5 cable back to the CU and have its own cooker isolator over the worktop? Does it need an isolator and can be taken off the kitchen ring? Does it need an isolator at all?
The isolator would not fit in the kitchen. And I dread to think how thick the cable would have to be...
(real answer; I don't think so..but I would)
On 12 Jun 2006 15:36:16 -0700 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com wrote this:-
Hopefully not:-)
One may think that a 800 to 1000W oven is suitable for such a connection. However, it is a fairly continuous load and so is best on a separate circuit, especially as ring mains in kitchens tend to be heavily loaded with things like washing machines.
Cable back to the consumer unit - see above.
The size of a cable depends on the specific loading and installation.
Within 2m of the oven.
See above.
See above.
See above.
Personally I would fit a dedicated cooker circuit rated at 45A, or
30A if I was feeling stingy, to allow flexibility in future cooking arrangements.The answers to all these question have been provided many times by many people. Search engines will soon come up with these earlier answers.
One megawatt is a hell of an oven. Your kitchen ring would need xsa of around 1000/7 x 2.5mm^2 = 357 mm^2 so solid 18mm copper rod should do it. You'd need a fairly serious extactor fan too, else you'd cook pretty quick.Is this an attempt to obsolete the microwave?
If its 1kW, as I think is more likely, it can happily go on a plug, as the load is fairly small. FWIW its not continuous, not even when in use.
NT
That's some oven. but assuming you meant 800-1000W that's rather small. In which case: Yes.
Does the oven
No.
Does it need an isolator Yes accessible and within 2m of the appliance.
and can be taken
FCU, switched DP socket or unswitched socket.
Does it need an isolator at all? Yes it must.
It probably requires its own substation...
Thanks. There is so much well meaning "opinion" on this. Of course it is better to have an oven mcb on the CU and a cable to the oven and an isolator. As I get it, the regs state the oven isolator can be on the kitchen ring main and a cable taken from it to a switchless socket that supplies the oven and that is fine. The kitchen ring will have only 3 double sockets, extract fan and a dishwasher off it. The ring appears ample and I see no reason why the oven can't be off the ring. If there was a tumble dryer and washing machine off the ring then I would take a cable back to the CU and fit its own mcb.
The CU is newish and it has fuses. Do I need to replace the fuses with mcbs? Do I need to install an RCD on the CU? Does a hob need an over worktop isolator these days?
To add. As I see it, if there are switched sockets for the oven and dishwasher accessible in the cupboard under the sink, then I do not need any isolators above the worktops. Is that right?
Providing the fuses provide sufficient protection, no.
Providing the socket is not likely to be used for portable appliances outdoors, no.
Yes.
Well, sockets are acceptable as isolators (note: it may be preferable to use unswitched sockets, to ensure the plug is pulled out isolating both poles. If a switched socket is used, ensure it is a double-pole switched one.)
However it is usual for the oven (and hob) to have a *visible* switch within 2m of the appliance and not hidden in a cupboard.
Owain
Thanks. To bottom line. There is lots of well meaning opinion which over engineers. The minimum the regs say is that if the "isolator" is in an adjacent cupboard and accessible, a double pole switched socket is all that is needed. No over worktop isolators are required. I find the switched spurs over worktops are a lot of hassle to fit, with tiling and all. They spoil the look of the kitchen making the worktops look cluttered, so best avoided by me. They are never used by the householder with not knowing what they are for anyway.
The over worktop isolator is only for when an appliance socket in the cupboard is not accessible. Right?
I used Unibond bathroom and shower sealant from the local shed. Expensive at 8 quid a go but it's so bloody waterproof it's v.difficult to smooth it after application 'cos it sticks to
*everything*. Flexible too, the only thing that broke it in our case was for some reason the shower tray managed to drop a few mm (don't ask why, I dunno yet!) and the stuff stretched and broke the grout on the surrounding tiles resulting in much leakage.....The moral to this tale is if yer tray doesn't drop this stuff is good! IMO obviously.
cheers
witchy/binarydinosaurs
There is the minimum of what the regs state and what maybe nice to have. You obviously confuse the two. Having an accessible socket in a cupboard with removable plug is far better than a switched spur over the worktops. And cheaper too.
The only over worktop switch I can think of that is mandatory (although not necessarily over a worktop) is a cooker switch, which by nature requires its own dedicated line back to the meter. All the others, including an electric oven, can be sockets in cupboards with removable plugs to the appliances. I have seen many kitchens that look a mess with fused spurs all above the worktops. Many people buy expensive stainless sockets and fittings to make the kitchen look a bit better. This thread has highlighted that all these extra needless electrical fittings are just not required at all.
The best isolation system I have seen is the MEM system of a central box (maybe in a cupboard) with engraved isolators/MCBs, which run off to a socket at each appliance, but even these are overkill if the sockets are accessible in adjacent cupboards. Just nice to have and will probably be rarely used.
The important thing to do before connecting a
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