GFCI toggle switches?

I have a set of AC toggle switches about a yard away from my shower stall. Light, vent fan, and heat lamp. They are in one box -- one dual switch, and a single switch with an indicator light (the heat lamp). I've been wondering if I should be using a GFCI there. But the only ones I can find are GFCI outlets, not GFCI switches, and especially dual switches. There isn't any outlet there.

First question is if I need GFCI there. If someone reaches out of the shower with wet hands and touches an AC switch, are they in danger of electrocution?

If yes, what do I do about it? Special grade switches? Or is there really a way of getting GFCI into a dual box with three switches?

Reply to
Doug
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It can be fed from the GFCI outlet in the wall or a GFCI breaker in the electrical panel. The switch handles are plastic and the cover plate is plastic. I doubt you have a shock hazard there even from the painted metal cover screws. The switch brackets are supposed to be grounded (earthed as my Limey friends say).

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

Unless the wiring was done by some home handyman (hack) who was unaware of GFI requirements, in a bath, the wiring is usually 'already' running thru a GFI..either in the bathroom outlet itself (where the light switch, fan etc are downstream from the GFI) or run thru a different GFI outside the bathroom somewhere. Check around the house for ALL the GFI outlets you can find..Even outside and in the laundry room and garage..hopefully one of these will control the bathroom power. Put a 'helper" in the bathroom who can shout out to you, Turn on the light/fan in the bath, then cycle the GFIs you find til the helper says "Thats the ONE"

Reply to
Rudy

Leviton does make a combination gfci-single pole toggle switch. Unless the fan unit is in the shower enclosure or over the tub, there is no NEC requirement that it or the switches that control it, be gfci protected. There is a requirement to have a gfci receptacle next to the sink .

Reply to
RBM

This house (vintage 1960) was inspected successfully about ten years ago when we bought the house, but I'm not aware of any external GFCI feeding these switches There is one on an outlet in the other bathroom (not hooked to this bathroom), and the bathroom we're talking about has only nongrounded outlets that feed from the wall lamp over the sink. (No, not that smart either, especially because they are switched with the light, but at least not reachable from the shower. No nightlights going on those outlets!)

I guess I have to believe that the inspectors didn't consider it a code violation. Perhaps they would have if it were an outlet? Probably right that these switches simply aren't considered shock hazards. I find that a bit surprising. The fact that there aren't GFCI swtches handily available would be consistent with that.

Back to the original question. Hacked or not hacked, how would I put one in? Surely there is a dual toggle switch that has a GFCI built in? Or are you saying that I need to put in a new box next to the switch box, put a GFCI outlet there, and feed the switches from that circuit? Seems unnecessarily hard.

Reply to
Doug

It's not a code violation if the wiring/devices/etc. all predate the requirement for GFCIs.

If it bothers you, you could change the breaker in the panel for a GFCI breaker, then you won't have to cut into the wall. There might be a combination GFCI/switch, although I'm not all warm and fuzzy about using a combo device with a receptacle in a wet location. Probably the best solution would be to demo the existing box and put in a two gang old work box with a switch and a GFCI recep...

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

I believe there is an electrical code that switches be some distance away so that it is UN-reachable from a shower stall. Because of this, you may find there is no GFCI protected switch available. Another reason is that in order to fully protect a switch, the GFCI needs to be upstream. Otherwise, there will always be some portion of the switch that is unprotected (e.g. the incoming hot lead).

In addition to putting in a GFCI breaker in the panel, there is another possibility:

If the upstream of the switch is an outlet somewhere, then you can replace the outlet with a GFCI outlet and let the switch be the downstream load.

Reply to
james

Thanks to all. The idea of a GFCI breaker seems like the best idea.

Yes, but isn't that also the case with an outlet? The incoming hot lead to the outlet is just as dangerous as the incoming hot lead to the switch. Again, just sort of puzzling why GFCI switches aren't common.

Reply to
danflester

re: Put "a 'helper" in the bathroom who can shout out to you

Under no circumstances should this "helper" be your wife/partner/ significant other.

Do Not, I repeat, Do Not attempt to map the circuit breaker box with your wife. Get a friend, or better yet, a complete stranger to help.

The mapping of circuits in a house has the same documented 'relationship casualty rate' as wallpapering.

Husband: (at breaker box, yelling through ductwork) Is it off? Wife: (at far end of house) What? Husband: I said, IS IT OFF? Wife: I meant, IS *WHAT* OFF? Husband: What? Did you say "It's not off"? Wife: NO! Husband: "No, it's not off" or "No, you didn't say it's not off?" Wife: ARRRRGGGHHHH I hate this! Husband: What?

Reply to
DerbyDad03

There is no distance requirement in the NEC, that a switch must be from a tub or shower

Reply to
RBM

You are wise beyond your years :)

Fortunately I have a small house so I just did it myself. My ass needs the exercise anyway.

I've been toying with the idea of having the girlie measure rooms, windows, etc. as I sit at my computer and draw everything in AutoCAD. Any feedback on whether that is a similarly bad idea?

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

The GFCI function of an outlet is not intended to protect anyone touching the outlet plate or screws. It is to prevent whatever is plugged into the outlet from from becoming a hazard due to leakage or shorts. Since nothing can be plugged into a switch there is no need for GFCI protection. There are location and grounding requirements adequate to prevent hazards from switches.

Don Young

Reply to
Don Young

Being a bachelor, I'm not sure why this is. In my case, I did map the breakers when I moved in. For sockets, I used a radio turned to max, and then go find which breaker turns off the radio. And for lights, trip one breaker and go see what works.

In a larger house, two workers with FRS walkie talkies could make short work of things.

In a house with forced air heat. If you close a damper (and you know it was closed not opened) that results in more air in one room. It's cause you're freezing the woman who lives there, and is sitting in the living room being ammused by the hubby and friend running up and down the stairs with walkie talkies. She's not ammused by having to wear blankets in the living room.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

What's the advantage of a computer aided floor plan?

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

My wife and I have done this using cellphones, it eliminates the shouting part, the misunderstanding is inherent in all marriages as far as I can tell.

Reply to
hrhofmann

Immediately, we'd like to shop around for a kitchen remodel soon as the economy picks up a little and my stocks are worth something again.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

There are blank faced GFCIs available that do not contain a receptacle. The are used to provide GFCI protection for loads located in places were it is undesirable to have a receptacle such as within ten feet of the waters edge at a hot tub.

-- Tom Horne

Reply to
Tom Horne

That makes a lot of sense. Specifically, why switches aren't marketed with GFCI. I was suspecting that. Now, I don't think anyone will reach out of the shower with heavily dripping hands to turn on the fan, but it occurs to me that you'd really have to have a switch heavily saturated with water to make it dangerous. Not so with an outlet, since the hot contacts are just a fraction of an inch behind the plate, and a wet hand could moisten a plug just enough to make continuity with the prongs.

Reply to
Doug

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