Are there three-way switches that have indicators (e.g. a light) that tells you whether the circuit is on or not?
I checked a couple of stores online, and there are lighted three-way switches, but they don't say that they are the type I need.
The reason is that there are two three-way switches on an outside light, and you can't see the outside light from one of the switches so you don't know whether it is on or off.
Please give urls for the ones you found.
What's the difference between the type you need and other types?
The light in the switch is usually on when the switch is off.
There are 3-2ay switches that indicate if the circuit is off. Most of them are probably this type. (They probably have a neon light between the "traveler" terminals.)
I believe there are also 3-ways that indicate if the circuit is on. They may require a neutral connection to the switch (which is not always available at a switch box).
I've seen lighted 3-way and 4-way switches. The lights are on when the circuit is off (open), which is also the norm for lighted single-pole switches. What "type" do you need?
Which of the three way switches is the one where you can't see the light from ? The supply side or the load side of the loop ?
If you are at the load side of the loop you could wire a pilot light into the circuit so that when the load is powered the pilot light indicates that... If you are referring to the switch at the supply side, doing that would require running another wire from the load connection back to the switch box on the supply side of the loop for the pilot light to work properly...
Most every lighted switch I have seen is illuminated when the circuit is off to make the switch visible in low light conditions so a person could find the switch easier and turn on the lights...
Usually circuit status in the way you are looking for is accomplished using a pilot light switch with an indicator built in or wiring in separate pilot lights...
~~ Evan
Lighted switches are NOT indicators. If you need a pilot on a 3 way you are going to need to add it as an extra switched load. Absolutely no other way around it. (other than fiber optics or a mirror mounted on a post that you can see from the window or door where the switch is located)
On a 3 way, it is generally on ALL the time, since there is no OFF position to the switch itself.
Nope.
If you connect a neon lamp (inside the switch) between the traveler terminals on a 3-way switch, the neon lamp will be on (for both 3-way switches) when the load is turned off. I assume they do the same thing on 4-way switches.
There is a little more complicated indicator lamp in 3-way (and probably
4-way) switches where the indicator is on when the load is on. Probably requires a neutral connection to the switches.It is not rocket science - they are readily available.
Somewhat OT. I have a regular switch for my outside light that lights when the outside light is on. The curious thing is that my electrician put it in using existing wiring and there is no neutral in the box. The house is 70 years old and there are only 2 wires in the box and the box is not grounded.. How is that possible?
Pilot light switches are lit when the circuit is on, and illuminated switches are lit when the circuit is off. They make 3 way pilot light switches, but you'd need to check how the circuit is wired to determine if one will work in the desired location. Here is a link to one type of pilot light 3 way:
If there are only two wires in that box one wire is hot and one wire is common. You have no ground in that box. That's the way houses were wired 70 years ago.
a neop indicator will light without a "real" ground
or one wire is hot and one is a switch leg, which IMHO is more common.
nate
If the circuit is open (light off), the traveler opposite of the position the switch is in will be energized (or grounded, and the common energized). An indicator from the switch common to this traveler will be lit.
Bub is correct about the 3 way set up.
I happen to have two 3-way light switches; one at the top of the stairs & one at the bottom.
BOTH are lit when the controlled light is OFF, BOTH are unlit when the controlled light is ON
IIRC neither switch had a neutral connection, just the typical three screw terminals that a regular 3-way switch has.
Yes, the light in the switch toggle is not meant to be an indicator lamp but all the lighted switches I've installed seem to provide that side benefit. My real intent was to help navigation through a dark house at night and reduce dirty finger / hand prints around light switches.....seems to help.
I have no practical experience with light switches in 4 way circuits.
cheers Bob
Jan-
Based on my experince installing light 3 ways at the bottom & top of the stairs......
Both are lit when the controlled light is off both are unlit when the controlled light is on
These were just regular old lighted 3-ways from Home Depot (Leviton
5503-LHW)Available in lots of place; prices range from $10 to $20 I would suggested just getting one and install it in the location desired.
cheers Bob
This sounds about right. (Unless some clever designer has come up with something we don't know about.)
And also because it's easier to do that way. The neon light can be put in parallel with the switch. When the switch is on, the voltage across the switch is zero or very close to it***, and there is little or no voltage to light the neon light. When the switch is off, the votage across the switch is 110AC and that's what the neon light is designed for**, and the current through the neon light will flow though the light the switch controls, but it's so little that light won't light.
**including its own resistor to lower the 110 to what is needed. ***Could they ever include a small resistor of some sort, to make a 5 volt drop to power the neon light. I tried to do something like that when I wanted my home burglar alarm to turn on my hall light. The option on the alarm panel made that simple. But then I wanted it to turn on the kitchen light, which had a switch with a built-in clock to turn it on and off. If I used the alarm panel to supply 117 volts to the load side of the timer switch, that meant zero volts across the timer, and it reset itself, resetting the time and forgetting the time/on/off settings. So I put in a resistor to lower the voltage supplied by the alarm panel to about 112, hoping 5 volts would be enough to keep the timer powered. I don't remember if it worked or not, but if it didnt't, I was going to increase the volts to 10 and see if that worked. Hmmm. I think it didn't work and I turned my attention to the dining room light, that was easy to do. Eventually the alarm panel failed and I haven't hooked this all up for the new one yet.
Either way, his question was how does the light switch light when the outside light is on?
Clare mentions a neon light, but they light when the outside light is off.
I can't answer Michael's question. Maybe someone can.
How about a PR2 flashlight bulb: 500ma at 2.38V. In series with a 60W load, it would take 2% of the power.
To avoid exposing the flashlight bulb to the starting surge, you could bypass it with a thermistor having a positive temperature coefficient.
If the load drew more current than the indicator bulb, you could bypass the indicator bulb with a resistor. In that case, a thermistor with a negative temperature coefficient in series with the bulb (but not the resistor) would protect it from starting surges.
Another approach might be to use a step-up transformer with a low primary impedance in series with the load to provide voltage for a neon indicator across its secondary.
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