Keyless Entry - security

I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the code from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.
I am about to get a car with such a feature.
Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it all a bit like tin foil hats?
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On 16/01/2018 14:02, DerbyBorn wrote:

It is certainly possible. Such kit does exist.

One thing to check is will the car allow you once the engine is started to drive away without any keys with you? This can be embarrassing!

I expect it would work but it wouldn't be very convenient.
I suspect the magic box needs to be moderately near to the key fob to do the transaction so keeping your keys near the middle of the house should be almost good enough. Inside a metal tobacco tin if you are paranoid.
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On 16/01/2018 14:15, Martin Brown wrote:

CPC sell a range of RF shielded boxes.
Bill
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A neighbour had a near new Disco stolen. The type with keyless entry.
On their new replacement (old car never recovered) they have one of those massive crook-lock type thingies on the steering wheel - and keep the keys in some special safe the dealer sold them.
Sounds a great time saver, this keyless system...
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 16/01/2018 14:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

My neighbour had his car taken even though the key was in a tin. It appears that his ford model has a blind spot on the alarm which lets you break the glass and poke a hole through it near the dash and reprogram the management computer without setting the alarm off. Why they allow re-programming while the alarm is set is anyone's guess.
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[19 lines snipped]

Wanna buy a bridge?
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Today is Sweetmorn, the 16th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3184
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
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On 16/01/2018 17:21, Huge wrote:

Go and talk about something you know about disckhead.
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On 16/01/2018 17:21, Huge wrote:

For anyone as stupid as huge dickhead have a look at
https://www.advanced-incar.co.uk/2017/03/09/keyless-entry-obd-port-theft-protect/
I still have the cctv of the thieves too. Not much use in identifying them as it was too dark for the IR illumination as its not intended to work on the other side of the street.
It was only a few months ago.
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It is cheaper than providing mechanical locks!
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DerbyBorn formulated on Tuesday :

Thieves can read the keys remotely, yes - so keeping them in some sort of metal cage is a worthwhile precaution. It needn't be anything special, even a glass ornament with a cooking foil liner is enough.
Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read in your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with cooking foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet lined with the plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.
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On 16/01/2018 15:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?
Bill
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Bill Wright wrote :

Microwaves!
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On 16/01/2018 17:48, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Ooh arr
Bill
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How does one of these card readers which can work some way from the cards - ie when in your wallet - differentiate between the different cards?
And surely there has to be a limit on the distance any such device can work at?
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*Why is it that most nudists are people you don't want to see naked?*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 00:34:29 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Given the warnings about not keeping your contactless debit card in the same pouch as your Oyster card, I'd suggest the answer is "they don't".

From experimentation no more than 20mm
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On 17/01/2018 00:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I doubt if the aluminised polymer film for keeping coffee fresh is a good enough conductor to prevent your card being read. It lets light through. Try presenting your card for payment wrapped in the stuff and see what happens. The thinnest real aluminium foil ought to do it.

It sends out the request on higher power to activate the card and receives with a much more sensitive receiver than the normal shop device. Probably still only has a working range of at most a few feet parallel to its larger transmit coil as opposed to a couple of inches.

Yes. But it is probably a lot further than you think given a big enough antenna to detect the signal.
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Martin Brown
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 08:28:25 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

And then has to unscramble the responses from the multiple NFC or HF RFID devices it wakes up. Not all of which will be bank cards.
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Dave.
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Martin Brown brought next idea :

I have tried it in shops (plus other tests) and yes it does prevent it working. The coffee foil I used does not allow light through, I suspect that is its main purpose, to prevent light spoiling the coffee grounds.
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Dave Plowman wrote:

The RFID reader repeatedly queries for devices with a longer and longer prefix of their ID, one bit at a time, the cards answer "yes" only if they have a matching prefix.
This can detect thousands of tags embedded in items of clothing at once as they enter a warehouse on a lorry, or can tell if more than one bank card is present at a card reader.
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Sadly, so I have been told, a lot of the cheaper readers do not implement CSMA/CD (if that's what the "prefix creep" can be described as).
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