How far travelling a Hybrid with no petrol



Yes - my newer car has climate control. But also an AC defeat button marked 'ECO'.
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Huge wrote:

I've driven cars since 1970 and until 2005 never had air conditioning. I didn't miss it, except possibly for one summer day in 1994.
However, since owning a car with a/c I do appreciate it, and can afford to buy a car that has it.
My point is that it isn't really necessary in the UK - unlike a heater. Having said that my father (now long gone) drove cars without heaters until about 1960. I think the mini in 1959 was the first entry-level saloon that had a heater as standard.
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In your incorrect opinion. Fortunately that counts for nothing.
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A/C is nowhere near as necessary as a heater. My first three cars didn't have it. I *think* my 1993 Mark III Golf had A/C. I know my various Peugeots (306 and 308) have had it.
I managed without until then. There were days when I got into an unbearably hot car and had the blower blowing "cold" (ambient air temperature) air onto me to keep me cool. There were a few days when this wasn't sufficient, especially if I was stuck in a traffic jam and had *only* the blower, without the added ram-jet effect of the car travelling along at 60 mph to force air through the dashboard vents.
When I got a car with A/C it made a tremendous difference. Firstly it kept the car to a bearable temperature on the relatively few scorching hot days. Secondly it dried the air which made it demist the inside of the windows a lot more quickly on cold damp mornings. I used to have to wipe the inside of the windscreen and side windows before it was safe to drive, and they quickly misted up again; now I have A/C, I put the heater on hot with A/C to get hot dry air, which demists the windows and keeps them demisted. Warm dry air is better than hot humid air for doing this (the A/C chills as well as dries the air, and the heater has to overcome the chilling).
A/C is very nice to have, but not essential like a heater is. I've never appreciated a heater more than the freezing cold day that the windows of my 1993 Golf spontaneously went down and wouldn't go back up, just as I parked at work. That lunchtime (*) I had to drive about 10 miles to the garage in sub-zero temperatures with the heater on full blast blowing very hot air out of all the vents to try to counteract the chilly air that was coming in through the windows. The fault was found to be a burned-out loom, and neither VW nor the branch of Halfords which fitted my alarm would accept responsibility, so I had to fork out about £400 for that.
(*) Fortunately when I explained what had happened, the security guys at work let me park right next to their office so they could keep an eye on the car, since it was insecure with the windows open (but the doors dead-locked so they couldn't be opened by anyone who put their hand in through the open window).
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On 30/09/2017 00:43, Graham J wrote:

I would suggest that a decent heat pump AC system is essential for battery powered cars! Since its a far more efficient way of heating and demisting. (also not many people would be so keen to buy a car without AC anyway these days)
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On 29/09/2017 15:08, Bob Minchin wrote:

If the can dodge the ban by installing a pack of AAs and calling it a hybrid, then that would be easier ;-)
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[17 lines snipped]

http://www.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/new-vehicles/bmw-i/i3/2016/introduction.html
The i8 also has a range extender version.
http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vehicles/vauxhall-range/cars/ampera/index.html
Not a huge range, I admit.
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Which is a shame. I imagine it is a lot easier to drive an electric car because there is no gearbox (or at least, there is one fixed ratio) so you are controlling the road speed directly without having to take into account the fact that in a petrol/diesel car the torque/acceleration is greater in a lower gear so the amount of throttle you need depends on what gear you are in; this is fine in a manual where you *know* what gear you are in, but I find automatics change down on demand so it's difficult to get just the acceleration you want - too little throttle and it stays in a high gear but with little engine power, fractionally more throttle and it changes down when you wouldn't in a manual and then gives an unexpected surge of acceleration. Whenever I had an automatic car on a site visit at work I found it very difficult to accelerate smoothly out of roundabouts because of the unexpected change down - I never managed to estimate the right amount of throttle to get it to stay in third and then apply increasing engine power. (*)
Electrics would have that discontinuity. I imagine that it is possible to set an acceleration limit in the controlling software, as well as a speed limit.
But everything depends critically on range. So a petrol/diesel-electric with a decent size of battery and electric rather than mechanical drive at all times, would seem to be the way forward.
As a matter of interest, how much energy is put back into a battery by regenerative braking. It would be interesting to see comparative mpg figures for the same car, being driven in the same conditions, first with regen turned off and then with it turned on.
(*) The ultimate was a Ford Focus that I was one given as a hire car, which I presume had a fault. It would get up to about 50 but if I tried to go faster, it changed down. I managed to get 50 in any of 4th, 3rd or 2nd gear with correspondingly higher engine speeds. Painful on a motorway.
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On Friday, 29 September 2017 14:29:32 UTC+1, Bob Minchin wrote:

A Plug in Hybrid can be charged at home from the mains (optionally) An "ordinary" hybrid is charged soley fromthe petrol engine.
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On Friday, 29 September 2017 14:29:32 UTC+1, Bob Minchin wrote:

It's called a PHEV. Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle.
Eg:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Outlander#Plug-in_hybrid
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On 29/09/2017 14:30, Bob Minchin wrote:

The original prius had under 5kWh of capacity or something like that.

One of the so called "plug in hybrids" perhaps.
Also there are a class of EVs where the petrol engine is termed a "range extender"
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On 29/09/2017 13:54, Bob Minchin wrote:

Some of the latest more hybrids can get about 20 miles on battery alone at reasonable but not high speed. They are fitted with a 8.8kwh battery pack.
116 years ago a columbia electric could about 3 miles on battery power with a top speed of 14mph, really we have not progressed an enormous amount.
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On 29/09/2017 14:18, MrCheerful wrote:

that should read 30 miles.
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Bob Minchin wrote:

My neighbour has a Prius, some days he reverses off the drive on battery alone and the engine starts as he pulls off down the road; other days, it only moves a few feet then the engine starts while he's still on his drive.
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On 29/09/2017 16:49, Andy Burns wrote:

From cold it will, intentionally, unless you hit the EV button first.
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On 29/09/2017 13:54, Bob Minchin wrote:

What sort of figures do you get in practice (as opposed to OEM claims)? Motorway cruising and town driving ?

You might manage a bit more on a long downhill stretch or less uphill.
But basically yes - the battery is there to allow the petrol engine to run for short periods at absolute maximum efficiency acting more like a capacitor or reservoir for the energy that it produces and then feeding it to the electric drive train as needed. I do wonder how well the battery will tolerate this regime long term but they claim it works OK.

I wonder how it damages the vehicle more than running out of petrol in a normal vehicle and running crud from the bottom of the tank through. Anyone have an explanation ?
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As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the car is designed with petrol and electric systems as complements of each other. This enables each system to be optimised for the functions it's best at, rather than having to cover every eventuality as a single-mode car would be.
If you run the car with only one system operational, that system is run out of its usual operating range, which can cause undue stress. In a hybrid the petrol engine is the ultimate source of energy and the fallback system in case of problems. Running without it means the car has no option but to run the electric system out of tolerance if you make excessive demands on it (the car not being able to tell whether not responding might cause danger to the occupants; it is safe to not start but it is not safe to shut down without warning).
Theo
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wrote:

Yes when I said about needing to take into account charge in battery I hadn't realised that the battery in petrol hybrid had such a small capacity. I'd assumed that it could manage maybe 50 continuous miles on its charge so as to not require the engine to be used at all while in a city.
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On 29/09/2017 11:57, NY wrote:

The computer shows you lifetime fuel average
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In my Auris, that figure appears to be optimistic.
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