Friggin cold phone callers

[The Medway Handyman]

The LAS HEMS helicopter is funded by Guvmint.

[Huge]

Can you arranged to get that onto Youtube?

[The Medway Handyman]

Just got a txt back from No 1 daughter.

Crew on scene can request HEMS, but there are automatic dispatch criteria; penetrating trauma, falls from height, RTC with passenger ejection etc.

There is always a HEMS paramedic in control monitoring calls and caling back for information.

[dennis]

Well there you are, spend the air ambulance money on more A&E staff, far more likely to save lives.

[The Medway Handyman]

Minor problem your tiny little brain won't have thought of.

The patients will be dead before they get there.....

[Steve Firth]

"Dave Liquorice" wrote: [snip]

I've given money to the RNLI for years, another charity that deserves support. I feel that the country needs a service like the RNLI to support ambulances, air ambulances and paramedics. That is, an organisation structured like the RNLI capable of specifying and providing the necessary vehicles, crew training and management services funded entirely by charitable donation.

The RNLI was, briefly, a government funded organisation. It was a disaster and the RNLI ended up opting to go back to charitable status. It just works better. Get it government funded and it will end up under the thumb of some moron like dennis.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , The Medway Handyman writes

Mmm.. and get moved to a treatment bay after two hours irrespective of any doctor being available to actually do anything.

The real annoyance is that there are books and a TV in the waiting room...

>

[Andy Champ]

Double win there, less patients to be dealt with by more staff. That will make the A&E numbers look much better, as the waiting time will be so much less.

What?

Oh. Yes, more people die.

Let's hope the NHS and the politicians aren't listening. They might take the idea seriously.

Andy

[The Medway Handyman]

You couldn't make up the Guvmint targets for the ambulance service.

Based on a report that was later discredited - by the author, which the politicians miss read, the Guvmint have an 8 minute target for Cat A (life threatening) calls.

So, if the ambo arrives in 9 minutes & they save the patients life - it's a failure. If they arrive in 7 mins & the patient dies - it's a success. No clinical element.

To meet the targets, LAS have put loads of FRU's (fast response units) on the road - but they can't transport patients. So the FRU responder usually has to wait for an ambulance.

Now you have 3 medics & 2 vehicles dealing with a call that previously took 2 medics & 1 vehicle.

[Sam Plusnet]

I agree.

That TV in the waiting room is _really_ annoying.

[SteveW]

Ours is currently 90 seconds away, but the trust want to close it and send everyone to one 25 minutes away - assuming no hold-ups. Ours is also close to the Trafford Centre, the M60 and the M62 (lots of accidents happen around this junction and a fair few people jump from the motorway bridge - some survive), the other is close to a different part of the M60 and the M56.

SteveW

[SteveW]

3) They can transport patients with back or neck injuries without the bumps of road transport. Although you could consider that part of 2 by having an ambulance drive at a crawl.

SteveW

[SteveW]

Wooden/laminate flooring or HEPA filtered vacuum cleaner I would guess.

SteveW

[Dave Liquorice]

You can get some quite nasty vibrations in a helicopter, particulary in hover but generally yes a smoother journey than some potholed A road. And cornering doesn't shove you sideways like it does in a car.

[dennis]

That's true as there aren't many alternatives to having life boats.

Do you want to quote stats that actually show how many lives are saved by air ambulances? There are plenty for the RNLI.

[dennis]

But what use is an A&E unit 90 seconds away if the staff can't cope with the A&Es? Sure you get good stats for arrival times but that's about it.

If you really do need to have 4m of armco removed from your body following a crash the sort of A&E currently about is not going to cope. the idea is to have minor injury units (broken arms and stuff like that) scattered about and major trauma units less scattered about.

[dennis]

8<

So now you want air ambulances at *all* crashes, etc. as the patient may have a neck or back injury.

[dennis]

The other things that some appear to forget include..

They can't always land next to the patient and they have to be transported to the helicopter often by an ambulance.

They can't fly in bad weather so you have to maintain a full road ambulance cover even if you have air ambulances.

Many can't operate at night so don't have an accident at night.

You could have an extra 20 - 30 paramedics on bikes for the cost of one air ambulance that is usable for about 60% of the time, just think of how many heart attack victims that would save.

[polygonum]

There is some logic to that approach in that not every town can have a full trauma unit. And concentration of skills and resources can have advantages.

But it also has its own considerable issues. Such as, on average the sickest patients will have to travel further/take longer to get there.

And the cost of getting to a suitable location is becoming more of an issue. If I hurt myself beyond the local GP-led minor injuries unit's capabilities, I quite possibly need to get a taxi, which is a not inconsiderable cost for two 15-mile journeys. And that cost is falling on the people here so does not show in NHS figures.

The current advice leaflet urges you to take most people to A&E yourself. A quick dash to a local hospital, maybe a couple of miles away, is one thing. Indeed I was able to get myself there fine last time I needed some help. But once you set out on a fifteen mile cross-country trip, you really have to hope the person does not deteriorate, that your initial assessment was good enough. And when in doubt, you are more likely to call an ambulance - which becomes an increase in NHS costs. But from a different budget.

[polygonum]

Our minor injuries unit, intriguingly, offers to cope with suspected fractures. So if you know it to be a fracture you have to go elsewhere?