Frenxh window back to front! How to make more secure?

[AL_n]

I bought a house a few months ago, whose UPVC French windows open outwards, and the hinges are on the outside. I've no idea why the previous owner did it that way, but it's obviously a security risk, as the hunges could simply be unscrewed from the outside. It doesn't look very likely that I could remove the whole frame and reinstall it with the hinges on the inside, because of the size of the opening in the masonry - and the walls are 2 ft thick! Is there any way I could make the doors more secure? Are there high- security hinges that can be fitted to UPVC doors?

How about those bolt things that go into the side of the door on the hinge side, so that when you close the door, a stud engages with a recess and effectively bolts the door on the hinge side? What do they call those things, and who stocks them?

Unfortunately, I am not in the market for a new french window, which I guess would be the ultimate solution.

Thank you

Al

[Richard Head]

Have these doors got a multi-point locking system with hooks, bolts or barrels that lock into the frame?

[AL_n]

"Richard Head" wrote in news:4cae24bf$0$29132 $ [e-mail]:

Yes, it does - at least, the half with the lock does, and that closes onto the other half.

Al

[AL_n]

"Richard Head" wrote in news:4cae24bf$0$29132$ [e-mail]:

Yes, the half with the lock does: one at the top and bottom, towards the middle of the two doors.

There are also a couple on the vertical edge, but the latter are not serving much purpose; they'd only be effective if the door was hung the other way around, opening inwards. I could perhaps add a couple of bolts of some kind to the half with no lock. Then the middle locking-studs would actually do some good when the door is locked.

The hinges seem like the weakest link. They can be unscrewd and actually, the pins could simply be tapped out!

Al

[The Natural Philosopher]

I was very grateful that the thieves who ignored the open windows and unlocked doors,crowbarred open a window with a jemmy.

Made the insurance claim much simpler.

[Mathew Newton]

Aren't they all like that? (i.e. and therefore supposed to be that way)

Mathew

[Dave Osborne]

They're called hinge bolts and you traditionally use them on a wooden door.

if you google for "UPVC hinge bolts", you get hits for special versions for UPVC.

e.g.

't ask me how they work, I'm no expert at UPVC stuff ;-)

[chris French]

In message , AL_n writes

Hinge bolts?

This was the first link on a web search for UPVC hinge Bolts

[John]

Why are they called "Double Check"?

[chris French]

In message , John writes

Where does it say that?

[Man at B&Q]

Because that's the way they were designed to be fitted.

but it's obviously a security risk, as the hunges could simply

Don't be silly. This post is a wind up.

MBQ

[Roger Mills]

Prom other posts, it sounds like hinge bolts - which lock the hinge side of the door into the frame when the door closes - are the answer to your immediate question.

But that leaves an other question which no-one had raised. From which side are your doors glazed? If the hinges are on the outside, there's a fighting chance that the glazing beads are also on the outside and - depending on the exact design - can probably be easily removed. A villain can very easily remove the glass and climb through the hole with no need to remove the whole door.

My conservatory is like that - but it's not too big a deal because there's another secure door between conservatory and house. It was actually quite useful a couple of years ago when the lock on the house door failed in the locked position and I was able to "break into" the conservatory in order to get to the other side of the locked door.

[AL_n]

Roger Mills wrote in news: [e-mail]:

This is a good point! Indeed, the beads are on the outside. So it looks like my options are to consider if the high cost of a custom built new French window is a price worth paying for a better level of security. I do live in a low-crime area where house break-ins are unheard of, but hey, there's always a first time, and sod's law will probably pick on me.

Another cheaper option would be to brick up part of the opening and install a glazed single door.

Yet another option would be to hir a powerful kango hammer and remove the surrounding masonry and try and remove the old door and try and reinstall it the right way round. That could be very messy and difficult.

What a nightmare! In the meantime, I've installed a security sytem of sorts, which might deter a burglar.

Thanks,

Al

[chris French]

It's a possibility certainly. However if they have used the very adhesive foam tape to glaze the frames then it's very hard to remove the glass.

[Mathew Newton]

(Apologies if this appears twice - I haven't seen my original attempt)

Aren't all UPVC French windows like this, i.e. hinges on the outside?

Mathew

[Chris Hogg]

AIUI, many UPVC French windows are installed that way. My mother's are. I have always assumed that they are nevertheless secure, thinking that the UPVC industry couldn't possibly be so stupid as to leave such an obvious way of access for burglars (maybe I'm naïve!). I suspect that if the pins were knocked out, or even the hinges cut off with an angle grinder or whatever, the doors wouldn't actually open that easily. From recollection, there are interlocking nylon tabs or tongues where the door meets the frame on the hinge side on both doors, that serve as hinge bolts and hold the doors in place, even if the hinges are removed. Whether they are actually effective against a determined burglar, I've no idea.

[Gary]

Most budget glazing has outside beads.. And it is not secure

But as you have it Superglue is a way to improve security. Glue the bead to the glass . If the unit gets smashed. No prob it is smashed. But otherwise the glass is not removable. i.e. secure.

[A.Lee]

You think a burglar would take the time to unscrew the hinges? In the real world, they'd just either smash the glass, or force open the doors with a jemmy. The same goes for doors. No point in having a 5 pin lock, double bolts and a chain - they just kick an hole in the bottom half, or stick a crow bar in it to force it open. I've been to maybe 10 burglaries in the last few years, and all were broken into by smashing something open. In one flat, the whole door was on the floor. Security lights and an alarm help to deter opportunist thieves. Hinges on the outside of a door do not attract them!

Alan.

[Spamlet]

I shouldn't think pvc is going to stop anyone who really wants to get in. Just make sure your insurance is up to date.

S

[AL_n]

alan@darkroom.+.com (A.Lee) wrote in news:1jq1ymr.x4p1c13f8vnkN% alan@darkroom.+.com:

Yes - especially if he wanted to work silently and had an electric screwdriver. That's how I would go about it if I was a burglar, anyway. The door in question is kind of secluded, so that would be the way to do it without risking attracting attention.

I think I'll beef up my electronic security measures until such time as I can afford to get the Frenchie replaced.

Anyway, thanks for trying to reassure me.

Al