Fixing a toaster - am I on to a loser here?

[Dave N]

Our toaster (a cheap 12 year old Philips model HL-5224) has died and I've been looking at taking it apart in case there's a simple repair possible such as fixing a loose connection.

However, when you turn it over to take the top cover off it appears to be fixed to the base using four fixings like this:

They look like push-on star nuts, so probably near-impossible to remove, and are also recessed by about 10mm, so even harder to access. I've tried a small flat blade screwdriver but don't think I can get the leverage I need as the fixings are recessed.

Can anyone suggest how to remove the cover without breaking it, or am I on to a loser?

TIA,

David.

[williamwright]

Life's too short. Sling it.

Bill

[Andrew]

Maybe someone fitted the 'wrong' fuse to make it safer :-)

[Andy Burns]

Or are they in 'inverse' torx security bit?

[JohnP]

Dave N wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I had one where crumbs whould sometimes prevent the solenoid holding down the toast holder and it switching on. A good thump fixed it.

Sadly - it is easier and cheaper for makers to say "no user servicable parts" and make them hard to open to deter you from trying. They attempt to reduce liabilities.

[T i m]

I just had a similar issue with an Aldi/Lidl battery charger that has an intermitted pushbutton switch but they were just tri-wing type screws and came out with a tri-wing bit and where they didn't, a flat bladed bit with the gap in the middle (so one 'leg' was inside the hole and the other on the outside).

So, if you have the right bit or can file a slot in an old flat bladed screwdriver they may well come out easily. Once out you can replace them (as I'm doing with this charger) or saw a slot across them?

Cheers, T i m

[Dave N]

I did of course swap the fuse (with one from another appliance with a 13A fuse in the plug). The latter worked so the fuse was evidently fine.

[Martin Brown]

Depends how it fails. The last one to go on me the magic smoke a huge bang and shower of sparks came out after the element blew and the then much shorter live loose end sub element touched earth.

You need to figure out exactly how they put it together and work back.

Chances are the right screwdriver head and sufficient torque will get it or sheer off the head to allow you to get in. The chances of a successful repair are slim and a cost effective one even slimmer.

[tabbypurr]

I don't recognise the head recess type. If you don't have a bit you can always drill it out.

NT

[Dave Liquorice]

Presumably the 6 "legs" and ring are the same height as the central dome, so you'd need something the profile of the dome to try and rotate the fixing. But as you say it does look push on so that might not help much unless it has "scrivit" sort of action, push on but the barbs form a "thread" and the fixing can be unscrewed,

Can you push a pin down the central side of a "leg"? Thinking that if they are sprung inwards onto a pin, 6 pins might release them allowing the thing to lift away.

[T i m]

Aren't they just a 'System Zero' (alike?) security screw?

You need to just imagine them as a dome with slots down the side, the 'driver' is a tube with splines on the inside?

Cheers, T i m

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

The thing is, is it worth the effort? Most of those I've had have had limited serviceability, normally nothing at all and all riveted together, some have a small panel that can allow changing of the flex or maybe even the cleaning of the switch mechanism secured by some security screws with a dire warning next to it. Most I've actually broken into use a simple module made in china with elements kind of laced around some kind of high temperature card and usually the element breaks somewhere at a bend and as all the elements are in series the whole thing stops. Quite how the frost button etc work, I've never looked but it sounds pretty mechanical. Brian

[Max Demian]

Non serviceable appliances are offensive, even if replacements only cost £5. Whatever happened to "right to repair"?

[polygonum_on_google]

I agree that it would be far better if repair were both possible and sensib le.

Though sometimes I think we have forgotten how poor some things were. As a child we had Morphy Richards toasters. Which were repaired (new elements) a nd replaced quite regularly. Whereas my current toaster has been going for about ten years so far. (I have a spare of the exact same model - in case it now decides to give up its magic smoke.)

[michael adams]

The easier you make electrical items to repair by DIY'ers the easier it is for the more incompetent to render them unsafe and possibly electrocute users or burn their houses down. Obviously some DIY'ers are still going to do this providing they can source spares, but this isn't something manufacturers want to encourage. As this may be a source of unwelcome publicity if nothing else.

While the labour cost of the time it would take a skilled repairer to dismantle an item designed for machine assembly, would often be greater than the cost of the item.

Whereas in the days when stuff was assembled by hand the difference might not have been as great. And as hand assembled items cost more in the first place, there would have been greater incentive to repair them.

michael adams

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[Scott]

I thought the EU was introducing 'Right to Repair' regulations to make all goods user-servicable. I apprecate that the status of the UK has changed but is this proceeding for the EU?

[michael adams]

The original idea which originated with motor manufacturers in the US was to prevent manufacturers from monopolising repairs by forcing them, and everyone else, to publish all the documentation covering their products which would be required by independent repairers. Should they be repairable

There's nothing in the regulations forcing manufacturers of machine assembled products, to redesign them so as to make them easier to dis-assemble them by hand. All that would do is put costs up. Of course costs could go up so much that it would then be economic to repair. But then manufacturers would all go out of business as they wouldn't sell any new products.

Just more bullshit IOW

michael adams

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[Fredxx]

I'm pretty sure you are correct. I wasn't sure what they were called.

The OP will find the driver tool costs more than the toaster.

[Tim+]

I would just attack a suitable width screwdriver tip with a Dremel or similar tool to produce a two pronged tip that fits.

Tim

[michael adams]

Strangely enough none of this seems to take account of the original IBM PC and subsequebt clones which apart from proprietory ROMs were deliberately designed so as to be easily assembled by anyone capable of wielding a screwdriver, from parts from a variety of manufacturers bought off the shelf. So "the right to build your own" then.

And then along came Apple.

michael adams

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