Fire incident

Jun 11, 2023 Last reply: 3 years ago 67 Replies

(Having a bit of a mutter here...)



There was a fire a couple of weeks ago down the road from us which destroyed the roof and top floors of a 3-storey block of flats and (I assume) waterlogged the lower two floors, displacing the tenants of



24 flats (no injuries). The flats were built about 20 years ago, but that's not relevant to what's got me muttering under my breath about the situation.

The immediate post-fire communication from the Fire&Rescue service was tight-lipped in terms of the cause -- understandably, as there's liability to consider -- but inevitably led to uninformed speculation.



After a few days, the first official word from the F&R service was that they were confident it wasn't arson, followed some days later by a statement describing it as an "electrical fault". That frightened the horses, as it raised the obvious question for the displaced tenants as to whether it was a "fault" of the electrical system, somebody DIY-ing what they shouldn't have, a dodgy appliance, or whatever.



After another week or so, word appears to have been put out that it's believed to have started when something like an iron was left drawing power from one of those enclosed extension cable reels that was being used while coiled up.



Although anyone reading this group will know that that's not a good idea, experience suggests that it's not as widely known as it should be by the general public -- or, more importantly, *why* cables should be unwound.(fn)



What I find unsettling is that (as far as I can make out), the F&R service seems to now be stating what they think was the likely cause of the fire, but hasn't gone furthter to explain why a coiled-up cable coould have been the problem. Coupled with their earlier "electrical fault" comment, I suspect there will be a number of people out there who'll conclude that it was a defective cable or appliance, rather than a perfectly sound cable (and appliance) that was being used in an unsafe manner.


(fn) I'm thinking here of my sister-in-law - an intelligent and capable woman who I noticed was un-coiling only as much cable as she needed, and without considering the load. She'd seen an instruction somewhere that it should be unwound, but she didn't have the foggiest idea why that was advisable, as no-one had ever explained it to her.



We'd had a similar discussion a few years earlier as to why it wasn't a good idea to have 13 amp fuses in every plug in the house, even though that's what was supplied to her in the days when everything came with an "unplugged" cable, and the shop charged extra for a plug (with a 13amp fuse) that she was supposed to wire up herself.



(Anyway, muttering episode over.)


I thought all modern cable reels should have a thermal cut-out? Perhaps this was an older example?

On 11 Jun 2023, Fredxx wrote

Good point; don't know (also not sure when the requirement for a thermal cut-out would have come into effect).

It may well have been an old one, but I suspect that there's still a lot of legacy kit kicking about. (Like those 13amp fuses from the olden days.....)

No. Not all of them have thermal cutouts. There is a brand new one in my van that does not have a thermal cutout.

From previous experience of analysing the after effects of a fire following the fire brigade blaming a storage heater my initial thought is don't believe all they tell you. Opening up the storage heater it was pristine inside although the outside was covered in soot and partly coated with melted foam cushion. My report said the heater had been IN a fire but not ON fire. If they can't identify the real cause it's sop to blame something electrical

On 11/06/2023 17:20, HVS wrote: ...

...

Nothing wrong with that, provided the flexes are similarly rated. :-)

Neighbours car set on fire. Fire brigade said electrical fault. CCTV says two yobs with a petrol can and a match.

The same fire service blamed an electrical fault on a fire in apartment that had no electricity.

South Yorkshire police trained them well in lying.

People will be stupid even if warnings are put on things. One I attended was an 'electrical fire'. Well, yes, the source was an halogen electric heater that had been left close to a settee, and set the settee alight. The idiot Tenant was trying to claim it wasnt his fault, and wanted everything that was damaged, replaced by us, as the FB said it was an electrical fault.

I actually posted here when the FB said a an electrical fault caused a fire in a a leisure centre and they had the brass neck to say that the RCBO should have tripped and was faulty.

Thick as pig s*it.

A typical Domestic Iron draws about 0.5A. A typical domestic fully-enclosed reeled extension would have a resistance of about 0.02 ohms per metre of cable.

Two comments:

  1. Do the arithmetic. a) there's bugger-all power to be dissipated inside the enclosure. b) the resistance added by the extra plus-socket probably is probably a far greater resistance / fire risk.

  1. The risk down to coiling and/or the extra plug-socket is probably less than the risk of a fully uncoiled extension being a trip hazard.

Road to hell etc.etc.

PA

Hmmm... and the rest.

Way back, a neighbour presented me with her cassette player that wouldn't work. Examining the mains plug wiring, the power connections were wrongly made across neutral and earth. A DIY effort 0/10 (can't remember the fuse chosen).

Some clueless folks must have tried other variations, and scary thoughts about them (even today) that have absolutely no idea about this stuff.

From car boot sales, eBay and imported goods from china, ye plug it in and it's 'hello punk, do you feel lucky?'.

Anything I've received, I'm always pulling the plug apart and checking before plugging in.

-&-

I bought a cheap 8amp extension reel from Wickes the other day, the cable is adequately rated but made of that copper clad aluminium stuff (CCA).

Is that flex going to have interesting high resistance spots and localised heating as it twists and ages?

Or does the thing against the use of CCA only apply to speaker cables and phone charger leads...

I had a 4 way power strip that was intermittent. Opened up the plug and the terminals had never been tightened. Got that from CPC.

I check them all now.

The Yanks are good at this. In a kitchen there I saw a long and narrow "socket strip", about 18" long with two slits running the length of it. Each slit had an 18" long socket for one pin. It was intended that you used their rubbish two-pin plugs with it, and you could plug into to *anywhere* *along* this device (or slide a plug along it). The one I saw had a number of devices plugged into it and was running very warm.

When I was at university, one of the girls in the hall of residence asked me to look at her new electric kettle, as it wasn't working. Her grandfather had wired the plug and managed to connect the live pin to the earth wire. The whole body was live when plugged in and the socket switched on. Fortunately, she had only picked it up by the plastic handle and hadn't touched he body. Otherwise she would have got an unpleasant shock.

I remember seeing a few like that, more than 40 years ago, in an electronics lab.

Caravan hookup cables are often stored on a reel for the sake of tidiness.

Given a draw of up to 16Amps, I'm still surprised at how many people leave the excess cable wound on the drum - and presumably get away with it - since they seem not to have learned that particular lesson.

Years ago I borrowed my grandpa's electric mower to cut my parents' grass. It had a short lead that ran from the motor to this sort of connector

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with the other gender connected to the long cable that ended in a conventional BS1363 plug that was plugged into cable reel (which I remembered to unroll fully).

The cable became tangled so I unplugged the

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connectors to untangle it - and was rather horrified to find that the plug and socket were wired the wrong way round: the mains lead had the male plug connector (with exposed pins) and the mower had the female socket connector. I came very close to accidentally touching the live and earth pins.

After unplugging from the extension cable I rewired the plug and socket the opposite way round, with the pins on the appliance and the recessed socket on the supply.

When everything was plugged together it was almost impossible to tell the difference, so my grandpa wouldn't have been able to tell. I wasn't sure whether it was his mistake or the manufacturers, and I didn't want to embarrass him if it was his fault so I kept quiet.

Almost 50 years ago, we had a fire at my parents' house.

My father was on his way back from a meeting in London, my sister was asleep in bed and I was reading in bed. My mother plugged in their electric blanket and went back downstairs to watch TV while the bed warmed - except that she'd accidentally put the wrong plug in.

She'd actually plugged in the UV/IR lamp that was stored under the bed. It was closed and should not have turned on, but the safety switch was designed to switch off if the lamp was closed or knocked on its side and used a mercury switch ... which unfortunately still made contact, when closed, but upside down.

Luckily, I smelt burning and we all got out, but their bed, one floorboard, chest of drawers and wardrobes were all burnt or charred and the entire upstairs and everything in it was smoke damaged.

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