Euro cylinder locks: recommendation

[dennis]

The biggest threat used to be bumping, until the scrotes discovered how easy it was to break the actual cylinder with a pair of molegrips. Now what you need is something to resist the breaking as most scrotes aren't going to have the skill or the time to pick the lock. On most euro cylinders they are easy to break as there isn't much metal due to the shape. So now you get sacrificial break of bits which are supposed to protect the lock but the scrotes can bypass that by driving a screw in and pulling the other non sacrificial bit out.

Various locks claim to prevent this but I don't see how a few lugs sticking out are going to stop it as there is nothing structural on the outside that they can act against other than the handle/plate and they are very vulnerable to a claw hammer or crowbar. You can buy security handles that are supposed to be tougher than the standard ones but I doubt if anything that mounts on a PVC door can be much tougher. Lets face it, most PVC doors don't even have the steel reinforcing fitted in the frame around the panels.

BTW as that prat keeps posting I miscounted the pins, there are nine in the ABS. I don't agree with anything else he has said as you can watch attacks on youtube and the pin inside a pin does take longer to pick.

[A.Lee]

And, in the real world, it is not worth anyone trying to pick or break a lock on a upvc door, you just use a crowbar on the door, and it will pop open. I've said this before, I have been to at least 10 break-ins to make secure, and everyone of them had the door or window jemmied open.

I demonstrated this to a lady once , who said they had the best locks available etc. I got the door open in around a minute, with no damage to the door or frame - just use 2 or 3 wedges, and jemmy round, and they pop open. If I wasnt bothered about damaging the door, it would take less than 20 seconds with minimal noise. If I wasnt bothered about the noise, it would be 10 seconds.

The lock is not an hindrance at all to getting in, the only benefits are that better locks are smoother, and dont wear as fast as the £5 ones from Screwfix.

On wooden doors, there may be a benefit to using good quality mortice locks, but again, they can be jemmied open fairly easily if there is only the one lock.

[F]

From this, and other responses (thanks, all), it looks like it's fairly pointless in changing the locks then.

[Ilene D'over]

I really do not understand how you can say this. On (very) old doors it was not uncommon to find just a 4 or 5 point roller cam holding the door closed with, if you were lucky, a short mortise bolt into the striker plate.

Any good later door will have at least 3 mortise bolts which you will certainly not be able to "pop open" without doing considerable damage.

Of course, if the frame has any movement in it or it is not properly installed it is possible to flex the frame enough to get around some mortise bolts.

This was why some manufacturers added a claw to the mortise bolt to prevent levering out the bolts..

As someone who gets called out on occasions to help customers get in after locking themselves out or losing their keys, I can assure you that it is not an easy job to gain entry from the outside without doing a lot of damage. I prefer to get a window open and take the door off from the inside to minimise damage. If the door opens outwards it's very easy to remove!

You only have to watch video of Police Officers using their Big Red Key to see how well secured some PVCu doors can be. Others, of course, "pop open" at the first touch.

Having good locks is a deterrent. A determined burglar will get in regardless by snapping if possible but your average scroat will not bother and look for another way in if he sees a good snap-resistant cylinder.

The greatest advantage of the Avocet is that it leaves nothing for the scroat to operate once they have snapped the front off unlike a lot of other cylinders.

There are a lot of snap-resistant cylinders out there but if it doesn't have a hardened steel centre bridge it can still be broken even when the sacrificial section has snapped off.

I would upgrade to the Avocet if you have cheap cylinders installed. We don't fit them ourselves, we fit Yale, but that's a cost decision by the men in suits in our factory :o(

As for some of the other comments I have seen in this thread, no one would even consider trying to pick or bump an Avocet cylinder. Drilling really doesn't work very well either so you are left with snapping and I covered that earlier.

[F]

And within 45 minutes of my previous post I've had CASAC

- 'Home Security Social Enterprise with Charity status') and a PCSO on my doorstep asking if I've thought of changing my Euro-locks!

I explained what I've learnt in this thread and they recommended the Avocet -

- which would confirm what you are suggesting. They also said it wouldn't succumb to the 'bang a screw in' attack.

[Ilene D'over]

And they are correct!

If you do decide to fit Avocet cylinders try:

and excellent service. No affiliation.

[dennis]

Have you actually done this on a door with claws and hinge bolts. You can't just lever them out unless the window/door manufacturer has omitted the metal reinforcement.

Even when they have anti jemmy plates fitted as they should?

[Hugo Nebula]

You know how if you win the World Cup three times, you get to keep it? Dennis has a mantlepiece full of awards.