We're shortly to have an extension built which will involve all
external doors being replaced along with new ones being built. I'm
considering going over to having Euro locks on all doors, (and the
garden shed and gate), with a keyed alike system so that the 'key
footprint' in my pocket is smaller.
SWMBO is convinced this will be less secure, but as a potential
burgler only needs access to *any* one door of the house I argue that
it's no less secure than having a differently keyed lock on each door!
Does anyone have any views or experience of this? - also are Euro
locks themselves any less secure than traditional large keyed
(Obviously in each case we'd be looking at the relevant BS standard -
can't remember the number offhand).
Here's what we'd be looking to secure:
2 x doors at front of house (probably will be wood) - either of which
could be final exit door.
2 x patio doors, - will only need to be lockable from the inside
1 x back door, (wood or UPVC) - needs to be lockable from inside or
outside, but will probably not be final exit door
[Finally, possible (if funds permit), conservatory door at rear which
would be in series, (i.e. downstream of), the back door mentioned
Any input from the group gratefully received as usual.
in article firstname.lastname@example.org, Mike
Pepper at mike email@example.com wrote on 30/10/07 11:28:
I have 2 locks on our wooden front door (1 auto-deadlocking mortise
nightlatch, 1 Union BS mortise deadlock, both Euros cylinders), back uPVC
door (Euro), shed (Yale-like rim-lock cylinder) and sidegate (mortise
sashlock, Euro) all keyed alike. Works very well. But was very expensive.
The BS deadbolt that take euro cylinders are generally very pricey. For
wooden doors, they will need security escutcheons. Just search and found
this one that looks good- the euro cyclinder is protected from the outside-
making it fairly immune from 'snapping'.
There are lots of key types that can be used in different types of
cylinders- e.g. I have a rim-lock on the shed with a Yale-style round
cylinder that is keyed-alike with all the euros. Some ranges include
padlocks (and some padlocks can take eurocylinders).
And up the total cost of everything when choosing a brand/supplier.
Technically, the BS will only apply if you use the cylinder supplied with
it, but an insurance company would have to be very though to notice (most
would just accept the BS mark on the lock plate).
One thing to remember when having a large suit of lock keyed alike is to
remember to look at the key- for example, mine has a razor-like spike at the
front- I have cut myself on it- I wish I had checked the key. This only
really applies to 'normal' keys- the flat 'dimple' ones, and other
double-sided designs usually can't make such sharp bits.
Agreed and three additional points.
- When selecting brand look at availability of the different required
cylinder lengths. I needed cylinders of different lengths and with
the cam at different offset positions. Not all brands have a
comprehensive range. Generally one wants to avoid having the cylinder
projecting from the door to any degree
- It may be worth adding a key theft/loss product to the home insurance
policy or choosing a policy with it included. If one key is lost, all
cylinders have to be replaced. Where keys differ, they may not all be
on the same keyring and may not all be lost at the same time.
- Rather like burglar alarms it probably better not to include the
subject of locks and types in household policies in order to secure a
discount. The discount is usually small and the terms provide a means
for the insurers to weasel out of paying or to reduce compensation.
Ah, the holy grail, where did you find one of them? I've used a union
escape lock to fake one up in the past.
Thanks for the link, better prices than I've seen on other BS approved euro
All good stuff, my own opinion is that I wont rely a euro as the sole
security on an exterior door, I'd use a euro lock at shoulder height with a
conventionally keyed deadlock at just above knee height, then you're down
to 2 keys. For non final exit doors you could substitute bolts or additional
patio door locks for the second mortice.
in article firstname.lastname@example.org, fred at email@example.com wrote on 30/10/07
I found it new-old-stock eBay for under a tenner- can't remember the make-
it was a discounted line.
a few options. Mine looks identical to the Briton (and is also oval/euro, so
is probably the same thing).
The bit I was getting excited about was the auto deadlocking mortice latch
but the nightlatches at lockshop don't really do that, well except for the
Chubb 3R35 but I don't count that as the latch has such a pathetic throw.
I've used a union escape sashlock with euro cylinder to get a similar result.
The escape function links the latch operation to the euro cylinder and the
latch spindle holes are just blanked off. You get extra security by throwing
the sashlock deadbolt.
There's an ASSA escape sashlock that looks good for this job too and it
has DIN Grade 4 security rating.
in article WsulHTA$ firstname.lastname@example.org, fred at email@example.com wrote on 30/10/07
Ahh, I think we have a difference in definition of auto-deadlocking. I think
you mean that a deadbolt is automatically thrown, or a latch that extends
more when the door is closed. My less stringent definition is basically an
anti-thrust latch. The latch I have doesn't have a large throw, but it is a
substantial piece of metal (much bigger than the latch on a sashlock), and
cannot be retracted by pushing it when the door is closed.
What I wanted in a lock is different from this- I wanted to be able to close
the door, and there be a bolt that couldn't be easily retracted from the
outside in place, but still be able to open from the inside with a normal
door knob. When we are out of the house, we always use the knee-high
If I am understanding you correctly this is the arrangement I have on my
front door. I have two Euro-locks one at the top and the other at the
bottom. They are locked with keyed-alike keys and I lock them both when
the house is left empty. By the handle I have another Euro-lock again
keyed-alike but with a thumb-turn on the inside. I lock this at night
when I am in the house. It means that it is possible to exit in a fire
without having to find the key first. Works for me.
Actually your definition is fine, I missed those details in the descriptions in
my first read.
Gotcha, I don't think our requirements are that different (honest). The
escape sashlocks appear to be a bit tougher than the nightlatches I have
looked having heavyweight boxed strikes and the extra option of throwing a
deadbolt in the top lock too.
I've no experience of Euro locks but we've had the same lock on our outside
doors for many years. Getting rid of several keys on the bunch was a great
A bonus is that all our 'children' only need one key too.
The quality of the lock is more important than the number of keys.
We have euro locks on our rear patio doors. Last weekend, we were burgled.
Copper and locksmith said the same thing. "Euro locks are $hite".
I won't divulge how they got in, but it was down to the euro lock. If these
are the ONLY lock source on that door, beware. If you use these, have
additional locks as well.
THESE EURO LOCKS CAN BE BREACHED VERY EASILY - I know, to my cost!!!!!
I did say that the quality of the lock is ... etc ...
We have two locks on each outside door, one at the middle rail and another
at the bottom rail, where we used to have a bolt. They all use the same
in article fg78uc$ti5$ firstname.lastname@example.org, diy-newby at email@example.com wrote on
I think we can be fairly sure that any details of how they got in would not
be news to a burglar that was savvy enough to search usenet for tips.
Was it a 'snapping' of the cylinder? You can get 'safe-snap' cylinders that
are design to break off at a weaker point than the middle, leaving a couple
of pins connected to the cam still. Or just mount the cylinder flush with
the outside of the door, as they should always be.
'Bumping' can get around lots of types of cylinder locks, not just euros,
but the chances of a burglar carrying a bump key of an obscure profile are
slim. Some Euro cylinders are immune due to using dimple keys, some have
magnetic/sprung active/mobile components in the keys, etc.
It is not that there is an insurmountable flaw in the Euro design, you just
have to be aware of how they should be installed, and choose a cylinder
design that has a security/cost balance that you are happy with.
Most cylinders that come with uPVC doors are unbranded, may only be 5 pin,
and may not have any anti-drill prevention, may be installed with the
cylinder protruding, etc. The salesmen can make more sales when their doors
have hook bolts, shoot bolts, etc. which are easy to demonstrate to the
customer. These things cost less than a really good cylinder, which the
customer cannot immediately see is superior- so the money is saved on this
part of the door.
Look at a Kaba Star cylinder:
26 pins, the external part of the cylinder is round and so almost impossible
Or the higher end Mul-t-lock cylinders:
When the mounting is secure, and the key system is secure, there is no
reason why a Euro is inferior to another lock system.
There are a few issues to consider. Here are some that come to mind...
1. You might have a set of keys to every lock in the house, but your
child may only be issued a front door key. If your child loses his/her
front door key, you have to replace *all* the locks in the house, with
the attendant delay whilst the locksmith re-pins your locks (or makes up
a new set).
2. Burglars look for an easy way out (and like to have escape options)
in case they are disturbed/the cops turn up. The more difficult it is
for a burglar to get *out* of your house, the less time he is likely to
spend *in* your house.
3. BS3621 "insurance approved" locks with Europrofile cylinders are not
so easy to come by and comparatively expensive.
4. Have you heard of "lock bumping"? try wikipedia and youtube. If you
decide to go the Europrofile route, make sure you get a "secure
section", and in particular, make sure that your key section is not the
standard Yale section. This will add significantly to the cost.
5. Cylinder locks are (generally speaking) easier to pick and easier to
drill than "traditional" mortice locks. However, as a commercial
locksmith told me "burglars don't pick or drill locks - they ram-raid or
kick the door in or break windows or crowbar or "loid" the doors or
windows - or simply walk in an unlocked door whilst you are watching the
telly. Having a good fence and security lights round the back of your
property is a better deterrent than a strong back door. Make sure the
neighbour's house looks a better bet".
That last is a very good point. I reckon that all the local lads know what's
in our house and don't want it. We have nothing of value which could be
sold. The valuable things we do have aren't easily recognised - books and
pictures for example. and our neighbours' houses certainly do look more
They all have burglar alarms too, we don't.
The things we'd miss most are tools, in the garage. That's like Fort Knox,
with several locks, long bolts, alarm - and so much clutter in front of the
doors it's not even easy for Spouse to get in!
On Oct 30, 11:28 am, Mike Pepper <mike_goo...@peppertree-
We have all doors keyed alike with eurocylinders. the front door
locks when closed but the oethrs have to be locked explicitly with a
key. the front door can also be deadlocked using a key on either side.
1) Don't use the same key on the gate: Someone could remove the
cylinder and take it to a locksmith to get a key made. It's the same
reasoning that means that petrol cap locks on cars should not use the
same key as the car doors or ignition.
2) the eurocylinders we have are such that you cannot put a key in on
both sides at the same time. This means that you can lock yourself
out (even if you have a key) if you leave a key in the inside cylinder
and then close the door.
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