Q about house insurance and door locks etc

[Terry Fields]

I'm currently researching house contents insurance, as it's approaching renewal time.

A couple of questions are proving problematic, and I'd be grateful for advice.

Q: Are all exit doors fitted with a mortice deadlock of at least 5 levers conforming to BS3621?

- How would I know this? The keys have no BS number and the parts of the locks that are visible have no markings. They are 6-pin Euro locks (the key has drillings of various depths in the flat sides)

Q: Does your property have a professionally installed and maintained NSI/NACOSS approved alarm system?

- the house has an alarm system that I have no interest in keeping serviced (I don't know the service codes, for example), consequently it is non-functional; what is this NSI/NACOSS approval that seems so important, and how would I know if it had such approval?

The point is that I *could* dismantle a lock to check the BS standard, but why should I have to? Supposing I was one of those people that didn't know one end of a screwdriver from another, how does Joe Public deal with this sort of thing?

A question about the house construction raised a wry smile - it's rendered, and I have no idea what lies under the rendering, but is that an option on the drop-down list? No......

Another dismal thing - one question reasonably asks the distance to the nearest water course; it's about 150m away. But I'm 300 ft ASL, and could probably ride out the melting of the glaciers - but do they ask that?

Doh! What a burden insurance is! I gave up on the online form, but the queries might be of use to others with the same issues.

[Bob Minchin]

locks that are visible have no

in the flat sides)

(I don't know the service codes, for

that seems so important, and

why should I have to? Supposing I

another, how does Joe Public deal with

and I have no idea what lies under

nearest water course; it's about 150m

glaciers - but do they ask that?

might be of use to others with

If the lock meets the BS it will be clearly marked as such. Usually the 'savings' for having an approved alarm are less than the cost of the monitoring contract.

[Tim Watts]

On Saturday 13 April 2013 10:46 Terry Fields wrote in uk.d-i-y:

If unsure, say no.

Say no on the basis it is not maintained. Use it is you wish - or not.

Phone them if there's not suitable option.

Simply put, always say no to the locks and alarms questions - unless you are

100% sure of being right and using them as specificified. Ditto window locks.

It usually makes no, or almost no difference to the premium, but answering in the affirmative gives them an option to slash any claim!

[John Williamson]

Also, if you do tell the company about the alarm, and forget to set it on the day you get burgled, the company have an excuse not to pay out.

I've got one fitted, and don't know the service codes and *I* know darn well it doesn't work, but the insuance company don't know about it. Hopefully any of the local scrotes seeing the sounder, camera and floodlights will look elsewhere...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I wonder why it matters. Perhaps the majority of break ins involve a window.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

How would they know?

[Tim Watts]

On Saturday 13 April 2013 11:43 Dave Plowman (News) wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I'm guessing police witness statements from the neighbours or the alarm controllers logs, if it's fancy enough.

I know both are not entirely *that* probable, but I never underestimate the sliminess of an insurance company.

If you were robbed at night, they might ask "why did the alarm not wake you"?

After all, the police will usually dertermine the method of entry and if they say "door or window not locked, no forced entry" you are screwed.

Then again, I saw how easily a mate's son (who is a locksmith) got into our old house when SWMBO locked her keys inside... That was a new PVC door with a eurolock - hint, if fitting such a door, get multipoint locks with "top hat" shaped pins all over the frame!!

[Pendlebury Chumbleton]

I wonder how many burglars actually achieve access by picking a non BS3621

4,3 or 2 lever lock?

All the burglaries I know about involve smashed windows or jemmied doors.

Pendlebury

[Nightjar]

It will carry the BS Kite mark on the face plate - the bit you can see when you open the door.

...

(I don't know the service codes, for

that seems so important, and

If you don't intend to have it maintained, the answer is no.

Colin Bignell

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You *really* think the police go round asking neighbours and taking statements for the average break-in? You're lucky to get a grunt and a crime number out of them round here. And there's no logging on my alarm.

I never ever use the alarm when indoors. Pointless in most houses.

How many break-ins involve picking a substandard lock?

If you had had lots of claims I can see an insurance company getting stroppy - but for the average one they're far more likely to argue over the payout than how it occurred.

[Owain]

It's not just the break in through the window, it's getting out again with your telly which tends to be via the door.

Owain

[Tim Watts]

On Saturday 13 April 2013 12:24 Dave Plowman (News) wrote in uk.d-i-y:

True in many cases, but it does depend where you live. A mate of mine reported a nicked bottle of milk from his doorstep and a copper turned up later. That was Newton Abbot though, near the police training college!

I think we would get a visit where I live, from the PCSO - but then there is almost no crime here anyway, so a break in is very rare. Mostly distraction cons and metal nickage.

Good point. I guess I was imagining an alarm that could be set for door/window contacts only but I agree that's not a very standard domestic arrangement.

I said "Not locked" - not "picked".

I just don't trust any of them...

[alan]

You will only save a few quid by saying yes to having the correct locks and a (professionally) maintained alarm system. Also watch out about the question about _ALL_ windows having an approved locks.

It's probably best to say no to all the questions and pay an extra fiver in premiums.

It's accidental damage by yourself and excess amounts that will make the biggest difference to your premium.

[Terry Fields]

Intrigued as to why I hadn't spotted this myself, I went exploring.

The front and side doors are the same, throw a handle and mighty hooks engage with the frame. No sign whatsoever of a BS number or kite-mark anywhere to be seen, although one part of the front door frame-locking system has KFV stamped on it together with a + sign in a circle. The sliding patio door eurocylinder has a picture of a key on the face of it, with an R in a circle. And that's all that's visible... It's a keyed-alike system, so I'm not sure why only one lock has visible markings.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Terry Fields writes

snip

Could it be to do with fire? Presumably they have access to hydrant locations. The brigade pump water out of the river whenever we have a serious fire here.

Flood risk? The EA publish a map showing areas likely to be flooded.

Don't have *contents*:-)

[John Williamson]

When I bought this place, it was described by the EA report as having a moderate risk of flooding, due to there being no flood defence works within a kilometre or so. The fact that I am about 30 metres above the nearest watercourse didn't seem to come into the matter.

I'd be a bit happier if the water actually soaked into the lawn a bit instead of running straight off, almost as if it was tarmac. Still, there's a shared alleyway between here and next door, so it can escape that way.

[Bill]

In message , John Williamson writes

I do have an alarm fitted, I fitted it, and I know it does work, so do the 10 CCTV cameras. But I'm not telling the insurance company for the very reason you mention above. In this case my reasoning is that what they don't know can't hurt me!

As for door locks, does any one have any comments on replacing my euro locks with thumb operation on the inside?

I am tempted to fit keyed alike locks on 3 external doors and fit the thumb option on the inside to make it quicker to get out in the case of a fire etc. But on the negative this would also make it easier for a burglar to get out too. But there again it would stop them from stopping me getting in by putting a key into the inside while they were there.

Why is life so complicated?

[Tim Lamb]

In message , John Williamson writes

Spike the lawn with a garden fork?

[Peter Parry]

that are visible have no

It is a requirement of the three British Standards for thief resistant locks (3621, 8521 and 10621) that the manufacturer?s name, trade mark, or other means of identification and the number and date of British Standard be placed on the lock so it is visible once the lock is installed.

If it is a Euro lock with no BS kite mark it is not to BS3621. Very few Euro locks meet BS3621 or 8621 and only two meet the Sold Secure Approved Products diamond standard. (The ABS Euro cylinder Mk4A lock cylinder and the Gege LAM SBS Cylinder. They must be fitted in appropriate external handles.

Euro locks are now the thieves favourites (about 30% of burglaries now involve bypassing Euro locks) as most can be broken in 15 to 50 seconds without any great skill. The flashy looking hooks top and bottom and "multipoint security" on UPVC doors are to stop the plastic door bending in a light breeze - once the lock is broken they contribute nothing. Going through a front door, if it can be done quickly and quietly, is favourite as if an alarm is fitted it will not go off for about 20 seconds after the door is opened which gives more than adequate time to disable dial out alarms and often enough time to grab what they want (often car keys) and get away.

The simplest attack on Euro locks can be made more difficult by fitting "break secure" cylinders and protective door furniture. If you have a "Secured by Design door" fitted after 2010 it will have a break secure lock. In most other cases the Euro lock cylinder will not break secure and can easily be bypassed..

don't know the service codes, for

that seems so important, and

If you don't have a maintenance contract you don't have a "professionally installed and maintained NSI/NACOSS approved alarm system". As others have said in most cases it is not worth declaring an alarm system.

should I have to?

You don't. If it was a BS3621 lock it would say so on the bits you can see.

how does Joe Public deal with

That's why the BS requires the fact that the lock meets it to be etched on the visible parts.

[John Williamson]

That would give a little leeway until the holes filled up. ;-)

If I dig down three inches, it's pure clay that I could make pots with. Even with a reasonably large hole filled with proper soil, some plants are drowning as the hole fills up. The apple trees I planted this time last year aren't even showing signs of leaves yet this year. If I want apples, I may well need to grow them in containers. :-/