Electric vehicles

[Broadback]

Lots of post on them but what do they cost

[JNugent]

Less than I could pay, but way more than I am prepared to pay.

[Peter Able]

Depends what you mean by cost.

Plenty of known unknowns - and some unknown unknowns.

PA

[Michael Chare]

To much. They tend to have a limited range and the expensive batteries have a reported life span of about 8 years. Quite possibly I will not have to buy one.

[Paul]

Smart EQ ForTwo hatchback "£6,000 more than the previously available petrol-powered Smart Fortwo"

priced from £16,850 | Autocar

Skoda Citigo e iV hatchback "For the price of the base model - around £17,500 there?s no other electric car that offers the same breadth of qualities as the Citigo e iV."

SEAT Mii electric "82bhp electric motor, 160 miles of range." see prev. item About £20,300

MINI Electric hatchback "starts at under £25,000. 145-mile range"

"Prices start at £24,400 (assuming the government?s £3,500 EV grant remains post-April)"

MG ZS EV SUV "after the Government grant it dips below £25,000. 163 miles of range"

Peugeot e-208 hatchback 211 miles "The 2021 e-208 price list kicks off at £26,725 for the Active Premium model (cost includes the £3500 government subsidy)."

Renault ZOE claimed 245 miles "Starting from £30,995 after PCG £2500"

Honda e hatchback 137 miles "its set to cost £26,500 after £3500 grant"

Nissan Leaf hatchback 40kWh battery, 168 miles £25,995 after some grant

# This entry included as reference point

Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus 254 miles £43,490 (£37,340 including £3500 grant) Long Range 348 miles £49,990 The Performance 329 miles £59,990 (silly and pointless, really)

It's really a matter of "what can you get away with". You're pricing "cars for work", not "jolly in countryside"

Buying a Model3 LR implies an interest in driving the countryside, in which case you start looking at "Fast Charge" options. Note that the cars do not like Fast Charging, they count the number of times you do it, and to meet battery warranty, may unceremoniously disable the feature when you're in the countryside and plug into the Fast Charger. You have to research the various car models, and see if obnoxious behaviors are instituted by software. Cars work best, if charged overnight on the home charger, at the "non-Fast" rate, which is plenty fast for overnight. Overnight charging implies a "Car for work" design.

Pcharge | /\_ <=== charger peak is quoted value, | / \__ does not use peak for very long | / \ A 345kW Taycan does not use 345kW! +----------- Time

The price has some proportionality to the battery size, but you can probably spot one of the items being slightly off the best fit line. When you see that, it probably means the specs are fabricated, or were annotated later.

The Model3 in China, uses Lithium Iron Phosphate, which should halve the range and also do something to the price. The rest of the world would use Lithium Cobalt.

You get better life from the batteries, by not charging them to 100%. For example, buying extra range and not using it, implies a larger number of charge cycles. You would operate the car from 60% downto 0% charge, rather than 100% downto 40%, which is harder on the battery. When there is excessive range, you don't fill it all the way up. When driving the countryside, you "splurge" by filling it just before the trip starts.

The idea is silly... except when mandated by law or economics (fuel taxes etc). We have a carbon tax here to improve our thinking on the topic.

Charging at a filling station on the highway, costs 2X charging at home. Charging at home is the economy solution. Damn that "car for work" model.

Paul

[jon]

How is the government going to recover all the fuel tax, when the the majority of vehicles are electric.

[Chris Hogg]

Tax electricity instead.

[Tim+]

Unlikely. Too many people bordering on fuel poverty as it is at the moment and no way of differentiating consumption. More likely an NZ style mileage tax.

Tim

[alan_m]

They will dye the fuel electrons red and and put a tax on them. A large fine will be imposed if they find you driving an electric car on any other coloured electrons, included those dyed green.

[PeterC]

BEVs are heavier then ICE vehicles; wear on the road is proportional to fourth power of weight. Lots more potholes!

[nightjar]

I would be surprised if electric vehicles do not have an inbuilt ability to detect when they are on charge and what rate they are charging at. If so, the means to measure their electricity use is already there and just needs to be output.

[polygonum_on_google]

Isn't that why HGVs, coaches, buses, etc., do ridiculously more damage than even heavy cars?

[Robin]

But involves a challenging job of data and then tax collection; and loses the chance to incentivise reduced and off-peak travel by car.

Plus nerdy issues - eg if you take your EV to Italy, and France and Italy (or the EU as a whole) have similar taxes.

[Andy Bennet]

Tyre tax.

A new tyre duty based on average milege obtainable with reasonable use of each tyre.

[Tim Streater]

Need to be a bit careful with that. Otherwise it suddenly becomes profitable for wide boys to start offering "low-cost" retreads on the sly and for others to have an extra incentive to jack your car up.

[Andy Bennet]

No better or worse than siphoning fuel, doing a garage fill and run, or useing red diesel. Any scheme will be open to illegal fiddling by the lower orders of society.

[The Natural Philosopher]

yes.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Creative!

Yup, that would work...

[Robin]

What could possibly go wrong when you replace a pay-as-you-go tax most people don't notice with a lumpy tax that'd probably increase the price of tyres by around a factor 4*? Start with:

maximum hiss

theft of wheels rockets (gor bless them cordless angle grinders)

smuggling (of dangerous tyres too)

Ministers get blame when cars with bald tyes skid and kill kiddies

*back of envelope assuming new cars account for half new tyres in UK

[Andy Burns]

Could you claim a refund for unrepairable punctures in low mileage tyres?