I had my own suspician when a tinker mechanical gdget company tries to enter highly technical and long gestation_return project like Electric car. Hope the guy has come down from his dream castle to ground.
Continue with overpriced vacuum machinesd mate that is where thw cheap money is there to pickup!
Quite. He'll have discovered there ain't the same pickings offered when he mixes with the big boys.
It's said that Tesla - despite the huge price - have failed to make a profit yet. And the margins on smaller vehicles is going to be even tighter.
Interesting to see an ad for electric MGs the other day. Quite some progress from a firm who had to buy a ready made brand only a few years ago.
Personally, I'd give him credit for making a substantial "scoping" investment in what is undoubtedly going to be a significant business in the fullness of time, and the wisdom to make the judgment to pull out at the moment.
Fact remains that he's made his money by *selling* undoubtedly innovative products in about 100 different countries.
Like with Apple the customers decide whether they are overpriced.
DId yuo see the basic test on omne of the comsumer progs like watchdog the other week, they 'tested' 3 cordless cleaners.
I'd have thought that would have been obvious from the start.
Part of the problem is with the 'garages' in the USA that sell them. The staff aren't trained with electrics vehicals and don;t know much about them and even those that do the problem is the margins for petrol are larger and the petrol industry pays more to a car salesman when he sells a petrol/diesel than he does when he sells an electric car.
Interesting that Tesla has some amazing technology - but there has been a lot of criticsm of the body construction. High number of parts, little rationalisation of fixings, etc. Seems like great tech - but not a mature car maker. Dyson would have needed to contract out many aspects of body design and engineering.
I think the Sinclair C5 (electrically assisted tricycle) was supposed to be a funding / feasibility step to the C1 (electric car).
The funny thing is, the C5 is still a good short range communing solution for those people who might otherwise cycle and want a bit of comfort and carrying capacity. No use for those who simply must have a heated seat and be completely isolated from the real world. ;-)
Yeah, I saw that (briefly).
What worries me about the whole (P)EV thing (and more so with hybrids) is just how complicated everything is becoming and how quickly things seem to get 'written off' these days for the sake of something overly complex / fallible / expensive?
My PEV for example doesn't have any electronics involved at all, as per thousands of milk-floats that carried tonnes of milk and produce around the country reliably for years in all weathers. KISS etc.
I'm not sure of the global availability of lead (for the use of production of LA batteries) compared with say Lithium but I believe lead is one of the most efficiently recycled metals.
I think there could be slot for a fully covered very lightweight / slow speed (30mph) PEV that isn't classified as a 'car' and so wouldn't need to go though all the crash testing and could be allowed on the bigger cycleways. I think I've seen something that fits that sorta description used abroad and may have been electrically assisted.
The problem with anything 'lightweight', especially in the UK is that you probably couldn't leave it in the road unattended because of the complete lack of respect for other peoples property exhibited by a minority of the community. ;-(
Cheers, T i m
I thought the C1 was first but never really practicl so he went for something smaller rather than a car.
Strange that few took them up then. Most felt safer cycling because they were higher up in the seat.
The real world was quite dangerous then, perhaps even worse today.
Whatever the markets wants will be sold the rest stays on the shelf.
I don;t suppsoe you know why everyone didn't choose to buy them do you. They do seema good idea perhaps charging them was a problem and the relatively low speed.
I think in the end they'd just get in the way of other road users.
Not sure what weight would have to do with it.
Agreed.
People are also sort of approaching the C5 concept from the other direction, namely the electric "Cargo Bikes" which, in urban areas, are more than up to doing shopping and school runs. There are also a couple that are regularly parked at my client's office, so evidently used for commuting. The wider and more upright geometry of these probably makes them safer than C5's.
Security should get better with a combination of alarms, immobilisers, trackers, and cameras sending images straight back to the owner.
I'm unconvinced by the "lithium will run out" arguments for the same reason I don't see us having to give up mobile phones because of the lack of a few exotic metals. I have a drawer full of old mobile phones, and once I can get a fiver apiece for them they'll be in the recycling. Lead is relatively easy to recycle of course, but I suspect that mobile phones are already more concentrated than some of the ores, and lithium batteries probably not far behind the current salt deposits.
Yeah. We are often walking along towpaths and you wouldn't believe the range of things you see people carrying on cycle trailers. From their grocery shopping, to water / fuel or even whole pallets. ;-)
We also saw a cargo bike just the other day (this one had the cargo part behind the cyclist but rigid etc).
For the people living on canal boats, there is the cost and ease of owning a petrol vehicle and the lack of access between car and boat in many cases that potentially drives them to use alternatives in the way we used to years ago. Bags of coal laying along cycle crossbars etc ... or a whole family of 5 and a box of chickens on a 50cc step-through as often seen in the Far East. Family transport and
120mpg. ;-)
I guess safety comes in several forms. 3 wheels offer better resistance to going over and being 'in' rather than 'on' something also offers better side impact protection in many cases. Also being white and with large / fairly bright lights and reflectors, the C5 is generally far more visible at night than most cycles or tandems.
Also, because the C5 is *very* different, it is generally seen and respected more than most cycles, as my riding of mine around in all environments (at the time) can attest.
Agreed. It's like the new automated delivery bots ... as soon as I see one I consider the 'fun' yer std yobbo could have with one, the only limits being what bystanders might do to intervene or how quickly any support personnel take to arrive on scene. No risk to yobbo of course as they would be unlikely to order from Amazon what they can steal locally? ;-(
I have even had to recover my Messerschmitt KR200 from the College flowerbeds because several of my mates though it would be funny to carry it up onto them. How we laughed ...
I thought the supply / demand predictions were that it would run out and fairly soon?
;-)
You may be right.
My thought, after designing, building and racing LA powered EV's is that we 'can' make such basic technology work and do so very easily, but we may need to adapt how we do what we do.
The other thing is how 'simple' it is to use and charge LA batteries. Mate has a Vauxhall Ampera and apparently the batteries are liquid cooled in use and whilst being charged. The charger for the 48V x
200Ah LA battery in my EV is a simple transformer jobby and no cooling was required under charge or in use. ;-)I guess for many the issue is getting them to even start to consider giving up what they consider essentials that would be considered luxuries to the majority around the world.
It would be a similar discussion re getting them to go camping ... maybe some of us are still reasonably well grounded and actually enjoy being close the nature, not completely isolated from it. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Problem for Tesla is that he can't meet his production targets. Tesla got in first but are now being caught and overtaken by the automotive giants. Dyson are wise to pull out. Find another niche.
My understanding is that lithium availability probably won't be a problem, but the cobalt also used in Li-batteries might well be, although alternatives are actively being researched.
Unusual to see cobalt in batteries.
In message snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, T i m snipped-for-privacy@spaced.me.uk> writes Snip
Ha. End of schooldays jaunt was to stand the headmasters Morris 1000 Traveller on 4 up turned dustbins.
Not true.
Yes well in the late 1960's, oil was going to run out in the 1980's.
The rare-earth minerals needed for the motors are mostly found in China. Problem.
No and no.
Rare-earth metals are found in many, many places. The places where they are most readily found is China.
China flexed its muscles a while back and ramped up the prices of its metals. All that happened was it made the cost of extracting the rare-earths from other parts of the world competitive again and so production started elsewhere. China lowered its prices. Other production stopped.
There's no point trying to act like a monopolist if you don't have a monopoly. China treads a fine balance between what it can charge and what it would like to charge. Too much and production from elsewhere becomes viable.
The rare-earth minerals needed for the motors are found all over the world, but China priduced them cheaper so all the other mines closed
Not electric, but France used to have Voiturettes? They used to be
2-seater, 350cc, diesel automatics, with a top speed of 45kmh (28mph).Ah, apparently they still do - can be driven by anyone from the age of
An electric version would seem an obvious direction.
I can't see the UK government taking such a sensible idea though.
SteveW
Even small cars such as classic Minis and classic Fiat 500s have been known to be picked up by a group of people and left in an awkward spot (such as trapped behind a row of bollards - or at our school, with two wheels on one side on the ground and the other two on top of a small wall).
Something lighter is quite likely to find itself further removed or even in the back of a van.
SteveW
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