Do dimmer switches work with Low Energy Bulbs?

[Bruce]

No need, you already proved it without any help from anyone.

[David Hansen]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:32:43 +0000 someone who may be John Rumm wrote this:-

The claim was made by, amongst others, a UK minister.

It may well be that, being a representative of the Labour Party, they were lying, but I wouldn't be so sure as to make the categoric statement you have.

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:30:16 +0000 someone who may be Tim W wrote this:-

People are trying to set up a false question. Climate change campaigners are well aware of the issues the poor face with climate change. They are the ones who are already suffering the effects and will suffer them most in the future. Take a look at the logos at the bottom of . For all their faults, are Christian Aid, Cafod and Oxfam unaware of the choices the poor face? I suggest they are not.

It is also false to paint all environmental organisations as being run by rich westerners. To take one example, Friends of the Earth policies are guided more by "southern" representatives than "northern" ones. The influence can be seen by browsing

I heard an interesting set of facts last weekend. The person who gave it didn't have the source, but I am happy to believe him.

UK population 1% of the world UK emissions 3% of the world

Both the above are well known.

UK emissions since the start of the industrial revolution 17%

In other words we have a huge historic responsibility which we need to discharge.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I blame it all on the chinese myself. I am sure they invented fire. They invented everything else.

Or was it the greeks., They invented the steam engine.

Or possibly the Mesopotamians. Didn't they invent farming, responsible for completely transforming the ecosystem and creating the sahara?

Nope. I think its all God's fault, for inventing human beings and giving them the wherewithal to affect the environment without giving them the understanding of the implications.

Let God sort it out.

I need more coffee.

[David Hansen]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:02:14 +0000 someone who may be Bruce wrote this:-

Are you trying to tell us that the various disasters at Chelyabinsk-65/40 [1] were not as bad as the incident (a near disaster, but not a disaster) at Three Mile Island? That Krasnoyarsk-26 has had no effect on the surrounding area?

I will grant you that the Tomsk-7 explosion was after Three Mile Island (and Chernobyl).

[1] I have used the cold war names. The various disasters can be looked up in a search engine using the three names. There is a list of locations at

[Jules]

Inflatable wind turbines - whatever next? Of course they'd probably use all the power they generated just in keeping themselves inflated - but shhh, it's green tech, so it *must* be good ;-)

[Derek Geldard]

Here's another one *Another * CFL died yesterday. An Osram Dulux Energy Saver 15W/827 120 ma , Made in Slovakia.

Allegedly rated 15,000 hrs. average life.

That's 2 out of 4 of this type after less than 6 months.

Surprisingly round figures, what ?

We didn't piss it all against the wall drinking cocktails out of hollowed out pineapples.

I just set that against the benefits to all humanity of our contributions to engineering, science, knowledge and medicine etc.

Where would India be without the railways and The English Language?

Derek

[Derek Geldard]

All in all probably right - ish.

But we don't intend to replicate that set up.

Can you tell a similar story about the largest Nuclear Site in Europe, the French Commercial Reactors at Gravellines ?

Do you have the co-ords of the hotspots on the coast near Dounreay I'd like to go and check them out. How many people suffered internal contamination from these hotspots and who were they ?

Derek

[Derek Geldard]

Nulab ? Did he open his mouth ?

If so he lied.

Trust me.

Derek

[Bill Wright]

That's not an answer.

Bill

[Bill Wright]

I'm glad someone has some insight.

Most people in the UK are essentially decent and fair, and many that are drawn to the BNP because they have been abandoned by the main parties are actually repelled by the racism of that party. Or they perhaps swallow it unhappily because there's no alternative party for them to support.

I know a BNP supporter who works with Poles and Asians and all sorts. He gets on with them perfectly well and to him their race or origin is irrelevant. He has to keep his BNP allegiance secret from them of course, which is an absurd position to be in. Now that bloke, let's face it, isn't a racist, but he's in a racist party because it's the only one he can find that represents most of his views. This is how the BNP have captured a lot of support, and if there was a determinedly non-racist party that opposed immigration and political correctness and the general bollocks that infest mainstream politics they would soon capture a lot of the BNP's support.

Bill

[The Natural Philosopher]

you should see about 2-3 times background for that area. Somewhat less than dartmoor or other radon sites, but detectable.

How many people suffered internal

None of course.

[Derek Geldard]

Not at all easy to measure without an ultra low-background counter and/or concentrating the sample then.

Of course it all depends on precisely what you mean by "Hotspot".

Derek

[Derek Geldard]

Which isotopes and in which direction did the wind carry them and how far ?

Ditto politicians, ditto trade union leaders, and ditto activists,

Ditto everybody where kudos, money and/or effort is involved. A bit of trivial corner cutting with the paperwork on a commercial contract.

Exactly the same happened to us. A German company supplied hundreds of calibration certificates for detectors they sold us. Somebody at BNFL held a sample of them up to the light together and noticed they were absolutely identical. The German company apologised but said said we on behalf of BNFL had pressed them for a low price and a fast delivery

That sort of thing has gone on as long as tinkers have been selling horses, and a salesman will promiss the world on a golden plate to get an order.

Derek

[John Rumm]

Quite possibly... IIRC (I don't have the reference to hand) the research figures however come from the US which has a far higher reliance on coal than we do in their power gen mix.

I was not suggesting that he was lying - just ill informed. (not that I would find it hard to believe a minister was lying).

There is a worked calculation here:

idea if its correct - but it looks plausible. You will note that the lower Hg count is in favour of CFLs but only by a small margin. That is based on US power generation, who uses a far higher percentage of coal than we do.

Back to the point however, it was not the general level of environmental Hg I was particularly concerned about (neither are desirable) - more the local levels following breakages etc.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Not at all. If you get 5 clicks per minute on yer trusty geiger at home, and 15 a minute there...

Thats how my friend did it back in the 70's. Hew was looking for evidence of Nooclear CoverUps. Being a good leftie and all.

He found nothing at all except at sSellafiled, About 3x background. On the beach

Dounreay was too far to travel too.

Nice emotive term. A coal ash tip is hotter, and so is dartmoor.

[<me9]

I remember a lab (tech college) I worked in in the 60s. It did radiochemistry (but had to be closed down at times when radiation levels increased). With the normal substances used in the lab the counter hardly got up into the 30s. When the senior lecturer got out his pocket watch the counter went beserk, full scale deflection and a high pitched buzz.

I wonder if the low level waste is still stored in the clock tower? I believe it is now a high class restaurant.

[Jules]

I'm suddenly reminded of:

[Bill Wright]

That's as it should be. We have led the world in industrialisation and now we reap the benefits. It would be a poor do if we were only emitting the same per capita as the blacks in Africa, after all the effort we put in while they were still wasting their time being savages. CO2 emission is a measure of success .

Bill

[Bill Wright]

We've done so much good for the world that all the backward nations should be grateful. They should be paying aid to us, not the other way round.

Bill