Diesoon v. Numatic Re: Those were the days!

[J G Miller]

There are no weasels in Ireland. (Or snakes.) ;)

But the latest news is that polar bears may be descended from Irish migrants.

Now we know why they are so bad tempered.

[Dave Liquorice]

Cats are hunters not scavengers. They might occasionally take carrion but not as a rule Our cat is a definatly a hunter, everything she brings home is still warm and occasionally still alive. Sometimes very much so, other times requiring dispatch.

Very rarely does she bring home a bird. Glad to say the feathers make a helluva mess. Most common prey is voles followed by shrews. She doesn't eat the shrews, read somewhere that they don't taste nice.

She has had a couple of stoats. Don't think we have weasels round here.

[Jim Lesurf]

Where did you get the data/stats from? Or did you just make it up?

No idea of the stats but I've seen a cat hunting and killing a bird on more than one occasion. Indeed, many years ago I saw two cats working in tandem with one driving the birds towards another in cover.

Slainte,

Jim

[Tim Streater]

Eh? WTF is that all about?

Where do these people take their dogs? To the village rec or one of the local footpaths. Just where there's a good chance of children or one's boots finding it. Lovely.

[The Natural Philosopher]

well no, they don't they take them into the country and leave plastic bags of shit everywhere.

[Andy Burns]

Dunno, one of those "council waste investigator" programmes on TV highlighted it, not exactly the sort of thing I'd bookmark, but it seems common

[MuddyMike]

Its true, we see it here as well. I think folk like to be seen doing the decent thing and pick it up then get fed up with carrying it.

Mike

[J G Miller]

On Friday, July 2011 at 17:23:45h +0100, Jim Lesurf asked:

Does he mean that for every 100 birds that cats actually bring home, the chance is that 99 of them were not actually killed and are still alive?

All depends on what you mean by "the chance is".

I would suggest it has no meaning of any significance.

And what is the difference between "killed" and "actually killed"?

[DerbyBoy]

I can't understand why people get so negative about Dysons. They gave the industry an incentive to move forwards and re-develop their products - or lose out to Dyson. As consumers we can all make choices about what we buy. I really believe that Dyson stimulated other manufacturers to improve their offerings. Just like the Japanese cars made other manufacturers look at issues of reliability and value for money.

[Tim Streater]

And Japanese motorbikes, too, with electric starters and indicators. All changes resisted tooth and nail over here, AIUI.

[Jim Lesurf]

Actually, I've been thinking about this and have recalled that on more than one occasion I've also observed evidence of a cat catching and killing a bird, then loosing interest and walking away without bothering to eat or take the result.

I also have recalled seeing a cat *trying* to hunt a crow. But then finding it had taken on a foe who was cleverer than the cat.

Quite an intriguing process where as the cat climbed a tree towards the crow, the crow would simply hop up to ever-higher branches. Leading the cat onto the higher and slimmer twigs until it was struggling. Then the crow took off and dive-bombed the now-anxious cat. The cat leapt out of the tree and ran away, still being dive-bombed by the crow.

I doubt the cat thought the crow was already dead. :-)

Also IIUC cats are nocturnal hunters. That seems odd for a "carrion eater" as I doubt carrion has to be hunted at night for fear that it will see the cat coming and fly away.

So I am curious about the idea that cats are "carrion eaters" and the strange "one in a hundred" claim. Seems quite contrary to what I've seen over the years. However maybe some cat-huggers like to believe such things.

Slainte,

Jim

[The Natural Philosopher]

Who do NOT live in suburbia, but out in the country.

So haver I, on more than one occasion but more often I've seen them find carrion already dead and bring it back.

And hunting is precarious. Tow of the 4 (make that 6, as ones had kittens) stay out for a couplel of days hunting rabbits mainly..then when that doesn't work, they come home for catfood, and to get us to fix the vast amount of fleas they have thereby acquired.

At my previous house it was voles - near water, plenty of water voles, and mice..not rabbits. No idea why, but less rabbits to kill?

Birds are good practice, but really not worth killing for food. Sod all on a bird and lots of feathers in the way.

I think they sue them fir training: If a bird is stupid enough to get caught by a cat, then its just Darwin . Birds breed themselves to population collapses anyway. Its only suburbanites with bird tables that provide both the means for birds to survive that wouldn't otherwise have done so and of course a perfect killing ground for cats who see a dozen birds there, and cant resist having a go.

In less managed environments, the birds are sparse, and represent very poor cost-benefit to a semi-feral cat. They have three dimensions to escape in, whereas mammals have only two, and they have little flesh to eat compared with a fat rabbit or mouse, all of which are easier to catch.

And in any case, it doesn't matter whether or not cats do catch a billion irds, or ten, what matters is that its trivial compared with the other reasons birds die - chiefly starvation because there are at any given time, more birds than food supply.

And if temporarily there is more food than birds, they have huge clutches several times a year, until there are..more birds than food.

Al;most no wrens this year at all. Probably 1/10th of 5 years ago. Wrens cant take hard winters.

But give us 5 soft winters and they will be back..

More buzzards this year here, than I've ever seen.

Carnage to ate from the cats has been two squirrels brought home, about ten rabbits, three mice and no birds at all. A shrew also, but they soon learn not to bother,. Taste bad apparently.

I wish they would catch moles...

I did find a dead bird, but there was no evidence that it was dead from cat and they didn't even show any interest in it.

In the woods i have found deer skulls and bones, with no evidence they have done anything other than just die. Stuff does just die.

[The Natural Philosopher]

What I mean is that of the 100 dead birds a cat collects, maybe only one was killed by the cat.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , MuddyMike writes

I suppose one should ask a few dog walkers. Perhaps a cross post to a doggy group?

My uninformed theory is that they hang it up in full sight intending to collect on their return journey (dogs crap on the outward part of a walk). For all I know, 99% of hung up bags are collected by their owners:-)

Marginally better than bagging and chucking into the nearest field.

regards

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Most dog walkers (and likely their dogs) prefer a circular route so they cover as little of the same ground twice as possible.

[Albert Ross]

Ours didn't bother too much with birds, they preferred small mammals, which they would sometimes bring me as a gift.

I was less impressed when one climbed out the window onto the roof and returned with a bat it had hooked out of the air. Worse still it was not completely dead :(

[Albert Ross]

To put things in perpective I once watched a pair of jays working a hedgerow like that.

One made itself obvious, which flushed the birds from their nests into mobbing mode. While they were panicking, the other one snuck in unnoticed and stole the eggs/young. I assume after it was full they changed roles.

Birds massively overproduce young and most of them have to die. Here we have a regular sparrowhawk visitor. and many other raptors and owls, but we still have a good population of small birds including tree sparrows.

Meanwhile a blackbird dived into a bucket of water and drowned and a collared dove broke its neck flying full tilt into a window. Robins lost two broods which failed to hatch for unknown reasons (third time looks to be a charm)

Things may be different in an urban area with a high cat population and a low bird population. Actually, thinking about it, I haven't had a cat visitor for about five years and seldom see them in the garden. The ones I know around the village are mainly fat and lazy.

[Albert Ross]

Fluffy toys with training wheels

Yes the sodding pigeons were sparse last winter but are more than making up for it now.

Ours weren't too badly affected. Although we lost a Cetti's Warbler the previous winter it was in a pretty stupid place and never succeeded in attracting a mate or breeding. I was amazed this spring at just how many had survived. Dartfords too. The main population dips have been in summer visitors which were obviously not affected by our winter.

I saw three in as many days here in East Angular (ether that or I was being stalked), they've spread east at a rapid rate. As well as the Marsh Harriers we have a local Kite to add to the Barn Owls, Hobbies, Peregrines etc.

I was toying with buying a JCB. Little buggers popping up all over the lawn.

[Jim Lesurf]

How many hundred birds have they brought in over what period? And what percentage of the cats in domestication do they comprise? How much of every night do you follow them around, and how do you ensure this doesn't affect their behaviour?

Again, you'd have to explain the statisical significance of that.

Slainte,

Jim

[Jim Lesurf]

That can't be true. We're being told they are mainly carrion eaters. :-)

Slainte,

Jim