cars ta ta

[Jack Harry Teesdale]

How do you know it's unnecessarily large? I didn't specify a make or size.

[Rod Speed]

And lack of convenient parking. The massive great malls with an even bigger parking lot around them leave them for dead.

[Rod Speed]

And none from nukes.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Exactly. All the geology shows CO2 rises AFTER warming occurs.

It is possible that a lot of today's CO2 rises is in fact the tail end of the little ice age.

Deep ocean CO2 would have the same isotope ratios as fossil fuel - its only CO2 from nitrogen exposed to cosmic rays that creates Carbon 12.

[The Natural Philosopher]

But an extremely lucrative one. Bribe and blackmail the government to mandate use of your useless technology. At swingeingly high prices. That's how the EU works. Big business buys the EU, the EU mandates use of their technology and they end up with guaranteed sales of utter crap.

[The Natural Philosopher]

You must be a millennial snowflake. I grew up in a smog filled coal smoking 1950s London. No fish swam in the Thames. When it didn't smell of coal it smelt of half burnt petrol You have no idea how much cleaner it is.

[The Natural Philosopher]

That the whole idea. Push the pollution away from the Lefty urban hipsters so its someone else's problem.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Those do not count. The only thing that counts is *wealth* creation, and how *little* work we need to do to create it.

Any one can create *employment* . Just smash every window every week. Then have government glaziers fix them. That's how socialism currently works.

If renewable energy is creating 10x more jobs than nuclear power it will be 10x more expensive.

So people were doing something useful.

So people were doing something useful.

Building wind turbines is a waste of anyone's life and taxpayers' money.

[Tim Streater]

You, or someone, said "SUV". I rest my case.

[The Natural Philosopher]

You dont even need to invoke that to explain climate change on centennial timescales . Heat loss of the earth is governed by the transport of heat to the poles. Where it radiates to space. Some of that is done by water vapour and some is done by ocean currents. Those are very important as the Antarctic has circumpolar currents but the Arctic has not.

In the arctic, if the oceans get too warm, the ice melts, blocks the current, and you get more rainfall and less snowfall, at lower latitudes and a much colder arctic. Which freezes up and stops melting. Negative feedback. The whole lag is tens of years if not hundreds. As any system analyst knows negative feedback that is delayed can cause oscillation.

And there are far more than just one ocean current. The whole shebang is a massive quasi stable chaotic system that will cause climate to change without *ANY* variation in sun output or cosmic rays or human CO2.

No, it wont stabilise. A chaotic system is one where feedback is possibly non linear, *negative* and |*delayed* and by several different paths. The general behaviour is quasi periodic pseudo- oscillations round one or more attractors.

One attractor is an ice age, another is an interstadial, like today.

Think of a flag flapping in the breeze.

The climate appears to be able to generate 'climate change' all by itself with *no variation in inputs whatsoever*.

Sadly climate scientists are for the most part third rate hucksters with zero understanding of chaos theory or systems analysis. Or indeed the physics governing climate.

Their models are simplistic to the point of being embarrassing.

[Andrew]

No you didn't. The LOndon smogs were in 1953 and as a result London became a smokeless zone with dramatic improvements in air quality.

It WAS cleaner until about 2005 when 10 million people were bribed by Nu Labour into buying diesel engined cars so that they could pay far less road tax and get 'better fuel economy'.

Air quality has nosedived ever since.

[Andrew]

Actually sending it up through very tall chimneys and away from the ground (most of the time).

[Andrew]

No, in the absence of a welfare state, they had no option.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I was born before 1953. 1953 is when I got whooping cough and developed asthma. I was in (outer) London then. And smokeless zone or not people were using coal well into the 1970s, in London. I was running an open fire will into the mid 1970s when I lived there. And Battersea power station was burning coal with very little filtration on it up till 1978.

Well no, The catalytic converters on petrol cars were a massive change. I remember going to california in 1974 and being amazed that I couldn't smell any exhaust fumes.

Diesels in the UK post catalytic converters turbo chargers and electronic fuel injection were massively better Only the lean burn algorithms meant NOx came in instead of particulates. Instead of smelling diesel I just got a sore throat and more asthma driving the M25. . Of course it was the EU that pioneered diesel cars . Blair just did what he was told. So that VW Audi Mercedes and BMW could all sell new cars, and then reversed it all so that they had to buy new petrol cars, and have flipped it again so we all have to buy electric cars.

In fact there is mire raw fuel spat out of a cold petrol car than a diesel one equipped with glo plugs.

No, it hasn't. Thats the political narrative, not objective fact

[The Natural Philosopher]

No, not really.

Most gas power stations have no tall chimneys

>

[SteveW]

Some SUVs take no more road space that family estate cars or hatchbacks.

[SteveW]

We have a gas power station about 2 miles away. It started operation in

2016 - both chimneys are tall and have aircraft warning lights on them.

[Jack Harry Teesdale]

+1

[Spike]

Me too!

And *no-one* in my primary or secondary school suffered from asthma, and in my top junior year photo we all look as thin as rakes and only a couple of kids wore glasses.

[Sargan]

I live in Wales all 30mph zones drop to 20 next month, and also all new road build projects have been cancelled. We have a political leader who does not want people in private cars.

Stupid signs on M4 saying "reduced speed limit to improve air quality" - cars run more efficiently when at a cruising speed not 20 or 30 mph Vast sections of M4 now permanently reduced to 50, and smart sections reducing below that.