Suit yourself, but there's something to be learnt here. I took the
machine to bits and that's what it does.
I suppose the argument might be that a catastrophic leak already has
water all over the floor, so failing to enter a rinse cycle won't stop
you getting your feet wet.
All you know is that there is a flood sensor, not
that it ignores flooding during the rinse cycle.
But it wouldn't if the machine stopped with an
error code when a leak of any kind is detected.
There wouldn’t be any point in in having
the leak detector if that was the case.
I bet you fooled yourself because of a faulty leak detector.
In fact it wouldn’t be hard to prove by deliberately putting
some water where the leak detector is. But it doesn’t produce
the minimal water flow during the wash phase, because that
would mean that it would have to have a multi speed pump
so it could pump minimally during the wash phase when a
leak has been detected. And there is no point in having a
wash cycle like that which doesn’t wash properly anyway.
One couple we know seem quite unconcerned that while they load the
washer their dog is also sticking its head in and actually does quite
a good job of licking the items clean.
Now after a wash cycle it should not make any difference but somehow
I'm glad we don't get invited to eat there.
I do know because I ran the machine through numerous wash cycles, while
fiddling with all the sensors (having stripped the side off the washer),
to see what they did.
The catastrophic leak will have dumped all the water currently in the
machine, on the floor, mid-wash-cycle. The leak detector won't be able
to predict a hose coming off, or the sump splitting.
The point is to force the user to investigate a small leak.
You don't have to do that - it's a big disc of expanded polystyrene
'floating' (in either air or water) in the bottom of the chassis. You
can push it up and down to simulate the effect of water.
The minimal-water observed when there's a "failed to fill" wash cycle is
the dregs in the sump, which are there because the pump doesn't
completely empty it plus the flow-back from the 'uphill' bit of the
drain pipe, which doesn't have a non-return valve upstream of the pump.
The correct sequence of operation is for the pump to operate briefly to
make sure the sump is as empty as possible, followed by the inlet system
trickling water in via the water softener. If you listen carefully you
can hear the gurgling of the inlet water through the various pipes,
before the main circulation pump starts thrashing the water around.
But you can't have seen it do the wash phase with very
little water pressure during the wash phase because
it doesn’t have a variable water pressure pump.
BULLSHIT. The first time if sees water in what you call the
chassis, stopping everything with an error code doesn’t
see anything like dumping all the water on the floor.
AND the OP never saw anything like all the water on the floor either.
Doesn’t need to PREDICT a damned thing, just detect water
in what you call the chassis and stop with an error code.
Even sillier than you usually manage. You have claimed that
it doesn’t do a damned thing about water all over the floor
during the wash phase and just carrys on regardless and
dumps the water used in the rinse phase on the floor as well.
Makes a hell of a lot more sense to stop with an error code
when any water is detected in what you call the chassis and
have the manual report that that error code means that there
has been a leak.
And when you do that, you won't see the dishwasher reduce
the water pressure during the wash phase because the pump
can't do that. And see it do the rinse phase as normal.
Why should it fail to fill when it detects water in what you call the
There is no water softener.
Still makes no sense to carry on regardless with fuck all water in the
wash phase when water is detected in what you call the chassis and
to then completely ignore the water detector in what you call the
chassis and do the rinse phase as normal and dump all that water
on the floor.
And the OP never said that he gets water all over the floor in the rinse
ALL he said is that he gets fuck all water pumped around in the wash phase.
The reason it has very little water pressure is because it has very
little WATER. The pump is trying to circulate the dregs in the sump, and
the result is only a dribble getting as far as the rotating arm at the
top of the washer.
It's two different scenarios. One is a slight leak which the floating
detector picks up and stops it filling at the start of a cycle. The
other is (eg) a hose splitting mid wash.
That's right - he hasn't got a catastrophic leak.
[Snip lots of stuff that's completely misunderstood the failure
See above, it's not a multi-pressure pump, but the regular pump having
nothing very much to pump.
To avoid pouring water into a washing machine with a leak. I'd prefer it
to give a visible/audible error indication, but that's not how it works.
If the user then subverts the system by pouring a couple of pans-full of
water in by hand, it carries on (with some water available to pump now)
and completes the rinses too.
Nope, that's all completely correct.
What do YOU call the thing with salt in it?
It doesn't carry on regardless, you have to put water in by hand.
What do YOU call the part of the washer that comprises the floor and the
frame which holds the rest of it up?
The leak detector is for small leaks. In my washer there was about half
a cup-full in the float-compartment when I first started debugging it.
I know. You've made that bit up.
I know, and it's that symptom which I've been explaining.
Yes, that's exactly what's going on, because the only water in the sump
is that left over from the last wash.
I've observed it many times, while experimenting with my 'broken'
It's easy; you open the door a crack and can see how much water is
splashing around. And it sounds quite different too - the pump is quite
clearly "gasping" for water, rather than there being a "sloshing around"
Where is it then? On my washer's control panel there's only one light,
called "End"; plus the lights in the four different programme buttons
which merely say which one you've selected).
As you've been told several times now, the washing cycle commences with
no more water in it than was left from the previous wash.
Over to you...
There's me and the OP. And doing online searches the only solution
people offered was that the inlet valve was faulty. But if that's the
case, it wouldn't operate properly to fill with rinse water. And I took
it out and tested it, and it was working OK.
It could, because the outlet pipe is about two inches under water while
it's washing. The exhaust pump is a very simple centrifugal one (the
same as on clothes washers), and if you took off the output pipe, water
would flow through it by gravity.
Mine doesn't have one.
Bully for you.
I don't need to measure it, I can clearly see that no water is added by
observing the transparent piping on the side of the washer.
Bullshit. If that was happening the pump wouldn’t last long doing
the whole of the wash phase with that little water and the machine
would detect that the heating of the water wasn’t working as well.
And its completely trivial to simulate how much water is in
the machine in the wash phase by turning off the water supply
completely so it can't add any water at all. You don’t in fact
see it do the wash phase at all if you do that because it knows
that there isnt any water in the machine. Its not stupid enough
to fuck the pump by pumping just air for the whole wash phase.
It took you that long to work out that it was getting
water into what you call the chassis ? I don’t believe you.
Same place all the lights are.
Even sillier than you usually manage. It in fact
pumps out the dishwasher when it starts up.
You don’t know that the OP is seeing his dishwasher doing
the entire wash phase with no water added at all after its
pumped out to the outlet as it starts. In fact we know that
it has more water than that because he does see some water
in the dishwasher when he opens the door in the wash phase.
How odd that no tech ever said that
the problem is a not very bad leak.
Not when its got a leak and that means that what remains in the
dishwasher overnight leaks out before the dishwasher is started.
But there is fuck all water left in the dishwasher at the end
of the use, so there is fuck all to drain back in there overnight
and so fuck all to leak into what you call the chassis.
If no water is added at all, there isnt
anything to pump thru the rotating arms.
Then there must be a problem that prevents the
dishwasher being emptied at the end of its use.
You don’t know that. ALL you know is that it doesn’t
spray as much during the wash phase as it does in the
rinse phase. You don’t even know that his Bosch is
anything like yours either.
I clearly said that yours is broken, but that your claim that
it furiously pumps for the whole wash phase with no added
water at all is clearly just plain wrong because there would
be nothing to pump at all if it actually did that.
And you have absolutely no idea what model the OP has either.
The pump's unlikely to be damaged by running with a low water supply,
and there is some water in the pump itself.
When this fault condition happens, it's fairly obvious because the
dishes don't get washed. And when you stand next to it you can't hear
the wash-water sloshing around.
It'll be heating the little water there is, and then turning off. It
won't have enough intelligence in the controller to think "hmm, that
heated up faster than normal".
Yes, that would be one way.
It's pumping the residual water in the sump. That's enough to produce a
trickle from the rotating arm, but not enough to actually do any
It didn't take long. As soon as it stopped washing the dishes properly I
took some time to stand next to it after I'd started it (rather than
leaving the kitchen) and it was obvious from the lack of "sloshing
noise" that the water fill wasn't working.
For a few days I worked around this by opening it up when it had been
running about a minute, and added water by hand.
Then I took a day off work and removed the dishwasher from under the
counter, took the side off, and started debugging what was wrong with
it. It was then that I found the flood detector, and saw it had some
water under it.
Which is on the front of a different model!
It doesn't pump it all out, and as I've told you before there's the
back-flow water that was in the uphill bit of the drain pipe.
What he described is the same as I observe. The residual water in the
One online resource mentioned the flood detector, but in general the
"help" sites are about as useful as people saying "re-install Windows"
when anything goes wrong with your Windows PC.
Depends how serious a leak. It could be as little as a drip every ten
That's not the case. There's more than you imagine.
We won't make any progress if you continue to be in denial about the
ps. Still waiting to hear what name you give the water softener.
Bullshit with your stupid claim that it adds no water at
all because it sees water in the chassis when it starts after
it pumps what has drained back overnight out the outlet.
Not when its pumped what has drained back over
night out the outlet and has not added any water
at all when it detects water in the chassis.
I just don’t believe that Bosch is actually stupid enough
to go thru the entire wash phase with no water at all in
the dishwasher. And then do the rinse phase as usual,
even tho its detected water in the chassis.
Particularly as NO ONE has ever reported
that massive design flaw world wide.
There is no water because all dishwashers pump what
they can out the outlet as they start to get rid of the
water that has drained back into the sump overnight.
You claim that it adds no water at all because it detects
water in the chassis. So there would be no water at all.
There is no water to pump.
And if you did that you would find that the dishwasher
isnt actually stupid enough to go do the entire wash
phase with no water in the machine at all.
There is no residual water in the sump. ALL dishwasher pump the
sump to the outlet when they start, to get rid of any water in the
sump because that has drained back with the machine idle and
could well have been sitting in the sump for days or weeks and
the last thing you want is to have that stagnant water being
pumped around the dishes you are trying to clean.
And yet you claimed to have done that 'many times'
It does actually, all that has drained back into the sump since the last
Dishwashers have to do that because what is in the sump may
well have been there for days or weeks and the last thing you
want to do is have the stagnant water being pumped around
the dishes you are trying to clean.
I don’t believe that either. It may well
be in the PUMP but not in the SUMP.
ONLY as far as less than normal water flow in the wash phase is concerned.
You don’t know that in his case.
Or that he has the same model you have either.
There is a lot more than one that does that.
That is just plain wrong with the sites that sell parts for dishwashers.
That isnt going to be detected by the flood sensor
because the most that can ever end up in the chassis
is what is in the sump after the final pump out. Fuck all.
That isnt going to produce a drip every 10 seconds
with no pressure behind it, just the minimal amount
that drains back into the sump overnight. That is
going to see a hell of a lot more than a drip every
10 seconds when the sump is full and doing the
Wrong. I am currently running mine on 6' wide concrete
slab outside the back of the house while I decided that
it would do a good job on the full sized beer bottles I
use to brew beer in, so I can see how much water it
pumps out of the sump when I start the dishwasher.
Its fuck all.
I'm not in denial, I KNOW that there is fuck all
in the sump when the dishwasher starts, just
what drains back after the last use. Fuck all.
And its completely trivial to prove that there
is nothing to pump by turning the water supply
off so you know that none got added and see
the dishwasher stop and whine about no water too.
BULLSHIT. If there was, not using the dishwasher for a week or more
would see the dishwasher use stagnant water that has been the sump
for weeks. No dishwasher designer is ever stupid enough to do it like that.
Doesn't say a damned thing about why it does that.
I already did, work out why it is doing that and fix it, stupid.
And I pointed out how to check if his dishwasher actually has
any water in the chassis and how to see if it adds any water
at the start by turning off the water supply and see if it continues
to behave the same way. Bet it doesn't. Bet it stops when it
detects that there is no water available.
That's what happens. I've tested it several times.
The drain pipe does up at least a foot and a half in most installations
(to avoid siphoning effects). The water in that foot and a half falls
back into the sump when the drain pump stops.
Sigh. The sump water.
You must ask them why this is what happens.
Two of us in this thread.
Not all of it.
It's very obvious when you look at the transparent inlet piping that it
adds nothing at all.
Only that much water described above.
Only that much water described above.
Only that much water described above.
Have you actually looked??
They pump out as much as they can, but it's not all of it.
Without a non-return valve on the pipe, please explain how nothing flows
back into the sump.
It's probably why they often do a "pre-rinse" as much to get the old
water diluted and out as to remove the crud from the new load of
The thing I did many times was observe the wash cycles having taken the
It gets the dishes washed.
Not all of it.
That's part of the pre-wash thing.
It was in the drain pipe, but flows back through the pump when it stops,
But there's more in the sump than you acknowledge.
Indeed, that's because the pump isn't capable of draining the last pint
or two. And it can't do it at the start of a new wash cycle any more
that it could at the end of the previous one.
I suggest you take off the outflow pipe and see how wet your feet get.
But the models which the OP and I have don't have that function built
I bet its actually got an intermittent fault with the
water supply system and you fooled yourself.
I left mine lying on the concrete floor when I was
running it on the concrete slab at the back of the
house to work out whether it was worth installing
and get no syphoning effect at all.
If it did that, not using the dishwasher for a week or more
would see it use that stagnant water when its used again.
Bosch doesn’t design dishwashers that badly.
Heavy breathing won't save your bacon.
There is no sump water. ALL dishwashers pump out the
sump right at the start to get rid of what may have drained
back into the sump from the main washing chamber after
the dishwasher was used the last time, so there is no
stagnant water in the sump to be pumped around the dishes.
No point, it doesn’t do that.
BULLSHIT. You don’t know that the OP
even has any water in the chassis at all.
You are just plain wrong.
For a different reason, the solenoid is fucked etc.
Pig ignorantly claimed above, actually.
Pig ignorantly claimed above, actually.
Pig ignorantly claimed above, actually.
Yep, and since I supplied the water from the garden tap,
and managed to forget to turn the tap on occasionally, the
dishwasher just stops and whines about the lack of water.
Its not actually stupid enough to try to do the entire wash phase
with no water except what allegedly remains in the sump.
Bullshit. If it wasn’t, you'd have stagnant water being used in the
first use of the dishwasher after not being used for a week or two.
Not all cycles have a prerinse.
If that was true all the cycles would have a pre rinse and they don’t.
And it makes much more sense to just add water
to the sump and then empty it anyway, no point
in spraying the dishes with that stagnant water.
I haven't seen a dishwasher that doesn’t do that,
pumps the sump before it does anything at all.
All of it, and the water it adds and pumps
out before it does any spraying at all.
Wrong. There is no prewash with some cycles.
There is ALWAYS a pump of the sump before it does
anything and water is added while its pumping so
that whatever stagnant water is ALL pumped out.
And gets pumped out when the pump is run again
before it does anything else, with added water to
get all the stagnant water out before it turns the
pump off and continues to add water to use.
There is fuck all compared with what is there in the wash phase.
Its nothing even remotely like a pint or two.
Wrong when it adds more water and pumps both
what remained in the sump and what is added out
before turning the pump off and filling the sump
before it ever pumps any water thru the rotating arms.
I already told you that it was never
on, its just lying on the concrete.
My feet don’t get wet at all.
You have absolutely no idea about that with the OP's dishwasher.
And ALL dishwashers are obviously capable of
stopping when they detect that the sump never fills.
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