BC to ES adapter

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , Mike Tomlinson escribió:

ikea.co.uk, search for 80306742

[PeterC]

Ikea also sell a multi-ES pendant fitting for less than the TLC single (last time I looked), so one of those with the cords chopped off and wired into the roses, or just the sockets if they're rewirablle...

[John Rumm]

As long as they have the outer (i.e. touchable) part of the thread isolated from either wire (as do modern ES fittings), then they should be ok.

[Brian Gaff]

I personally have always felt BC lampholders were a death trap to the unwary, and never really understood why we used them. If nothing else when the bc ones break they deposit the bulb on ones head quite often, and then there is the open socket ideal for frying two fingers. Brian

[NY]

I've not had that happen with either type of fitting. The usual mode of failure is that the bulb separates from the metal sheath (threaded or with bayonet lugs), usually when removing a blown bulb, and once you twist the bulb beyond a certain point against its metal sheath, its internal wires short and trip the lighting circuit breaker. It's more common with ES (hence my reason for preferring BC) because of the greater friction between the screw of the bulb and the screw of the fitting than between the lugs and notch of a BC fitting.

If (somehow) the metal cap of the bulb were to come out of the fitting (with or without the bulb attached), it's equally dangerous if you happened to insert your fingers, because they will either make contact with the two pins (BC) or with the live centre pin and the contact that connects to the screw of the bulb (ES). Maybe it's slightly more likely with BC. The moral is - don't do it. But I accept that if you can't see, you don't know when your finger is about to insert into the ES or BS fitting.

I've never had a fitting fail such that the bulb falls out because the plastic of the fitting has broken off and the metal collar inside has distorted, releasing one of the pins of the bayonet. Maybe I've been lucky.

[tabbypurr]

Rings are safer & cheaper.

NT

[NY]

So do mainland European houses have a separate spur between each socket and the "fuse box", even when they are all controlled by the same circuit breaker (ie they would be on the same ring main in the UK)? Or is it that there is a single cable that daisy-chains from socket to socket (as for a ring main), but doesn't connect from the furthest socket back to the same circuit breaker to form a ring with two routes between every socket and its circuit breaker?

In the former case, there must be huge terminal blocks for all the separate spurs to connect to a common circuit breaker, and a very fat bundle of cables leaving the "fuse box" for all the sockets and lights.

From your comment about ring main being cheaper, I'm guessing Europe *do* have separate spurs, using far more cable than for a ring main that daisy-chains.

[damduck-egg]

We aren't though its use abroad is now getting rarer. I know someone who used to go across to France and buy old tat to bring back and sell here as collectable's and she often came back with an old lamp with a bayonet fitting.

Don't forget that even the UK had many different voltages for the first part of the 20th century with odd non standard pocket surviving to the late 1960's, the bayonet was available in many voltages. After WW2 my father almost became an electrician and one remnant of this stored in a shed was a box of bayonet lamp bulbs that looked just like any others in size but they were 12, 24 , 50, 100,200, volt versions. Mains had not arrived where we lived at that stage but the various voltages were for the farms and other business like the sawmill who had installed private generators from the 1920's onwards. Mains arrived in a couple of years and dad no longer had customers for the lamps.

G.Harman

[John Rumm]

They tend to need lots of circuits with relatively few sockets on each. Since their plugs don't have fuses, the main circuit breaker for the whole circuit is also responsible for providing fault protection for the appliance flexes as well as the circuit's cables. Hence 16A is a fairly common top limit.

Yup they use what we would call a radial circuit - a daisy chain or tree structure. However with far fewer sockets.

Its not only the cabling topology, its the lack of a plug fuse that limits the power a socket circuit can supply. Hence each circuit can only cover a smaller area before running out of capacity.

IIUC some countries go for sub panels (i.e. secondary CUs) closer to the point of use, to reduce the amount of cables to concentrate back at the main CU.

[tabbypurr]

They have several daisy chains. One single bad connection and it's fire time.

NT

[Mike Clarke]

The main problem I've had with BC fittings is that after prolonged use and heat the plungers sometimes gradually make an indentation in the solder pads on the cap of the bulb. Combine this with plungers that become reluctant to slide back due to a build up of oxidation and it becomes difficult to press and turn the bulb sufficiently to remove it leading to separation of the bulb from its cap.

So far I've not had any problem from ES fittings becoming seized up - but then they've not been in use here for as long as BC yet.

[Jon Fairbairn]

Still do, I think: TLBPH/ES

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That is also a pendant set including rose and cable. If the lamp holder could be removed from the cable and used elsewhere, would be an economical way of doing it.

But still doesn't explain why everyone sells BC bulbholders - cheap as chips - but not the equivalent in ES, considering how long ES has been common in the UK.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Surely everyone has the sense to make sure the light is switched off before fiddling with a lamp holder?

[Mike Clarke]

Some would find it difficult to be sure if the lamp was controlled by a string switch or 2 way switching.

[NY]

How long *has* ES been common in this country? I never saw any ES bulbs until shops like IKEA started to sell mainland-European bulbs in the UK. Before that, the only bulbs you could get were large BC - for example in

40W, 60W, 100W, 150W and other larger wattages.

Then we started to get "fancy" light fittings that took small BC or large/small ES bulbs. I had always assumed that ES was 120V only, and was partly a way of making sure that you could never accidentally put a 120V bulb in a 220/240V fitting or vice versa, but that nice neat theory was shot to pieces when I learned that Europe uses 220V bulbs with ES fittings.

Are there any "standard" bulbs with ES fittings commonly sold in the UK, or is your bog-standard 40W/60W/100W bulb always BC? My perception is that ES and SBC are confined to decorative candle bulbs (often with clear glass so the filament is visible - YUK) for use in chandeliers and other multi-bulb light fittings where the bulb is visible and is part of the visual effect of the fitting, rather than having a shade or reflector/diffuser around it.

When I bought the house I used to live in, it had been a show-house, and every room had a decorative fitting. Some used SES bulbs, some used SBC, and one used LBC. I had to keep a stock of all three bulbs. It would have been so much simpler if the designer of the show-house had standardised on fittings that all used the same size bulb.

If there is a plentiful supply of bulbs (standard "pear-shaped", CFL etc) available in BC, for normal pendant or batten fittings, why would anyone want to go non-standard (for the UK) and use ES bulbs instead, given that once you have installed those fittings you have to find a supply of ES bulbs, and those are more specialised and not sold as widely.

In the same way that we have standardised on three-pin plugs, we have standardised on BC bulbs. Why would anyone want to adopt a different (European) standard instead?

[damduck-egg]

Tad unfair to many who are not and feel no need to be technical. This group is not representative of many of the population who would call in an electrician for repairs but would not want to do so to change a lamp bulb.

Many of those will have thought they have turned off the light but don't realise that if it is one with two way switching such as a stairway light then it is quite possible for live contacts to still be present.

Perhaps instead of light switched off you meant circuit switched off.

G.Harman

[NY]

Agreed - hence the need to only approach the fitting with the bulb already in your hand, with its BC or ES pointing towards the fitting, and never to put your fingers near the fitting unless you are holding the dead or replacement bulb. I tend to assume that every light fitting is live, just in case!

[tabbypurr]

If that were true we could simply use bare wires on pendants. In fact twisted rubber where the insulation had fallen off used to be common... but people did get shocks, and I presume fires occurred.

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Even so, remind me of when IKEA opened in the UK?

Wiring accessory makers have produced plenty new designs long after that. The obvious one being a 13 amp socket with USB charger outputs. And that is specific to the UK.