Bathroom wiring questions

Hi all

I am doing our bathroom up and we are having a cupboard with a couple sinks on top. The kids want to get electric tooth brushes so am wondering what my options are for providing power to the sink area for then to plug their toothbrushes in.

I assume there is no way of putting a socket on the wall between the sinks? Would putting it in the cupboard below the sinks be an option?

Also, I am fitting a spa bath. It has an IP55 box underneath to wire the pumps up so I plan to run the power from here to a socket somewhere. Can I put the socket for this in the cupboard too or should it be outside of the bathroom?

Thanks in advance all

Lee.

Reply to
leenowell
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Bathroom shaver socket is the usual way - can be installed in Zone 2 over the basins if you like.

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"Shaver supply units The minimum degree of protection for equipment installed in zones 1 and

2 is IPX4, or IPX5 where water jets are likely to be used for cleaning purposes. An exception to this requirement is a shaver supply unit complying with BS EN 61558-2-5 which, although it does not meet the requirements of IP4X, is permitted in zone 2 but must be located where direct spray from showers is unlikely. This type of shaver supply unit is the only type that is permitted in a bathroom or shower room."
Reply to
Tim Watts

Thanks very much Tim. So this would imply that in the cupboard would be tr eated as zone 1 (likening it to under the bath but does not need tool to ge t to) so I couldn't have a socket in there for the spa bath but could have an IPx4 or greater switch [eg a light switch]) I could have the shaver soc kets in the cupboard for the toothbrushes though?

Also it doesn't seem to give a zone for the sink area. I have seen somethi ng that suggests best practice is 60 cm diameter above the basin should be classed as zone 1.

Is this correct?

thanks again

Lee.

Reply to
lee

The normal solution is an isolated (i.e. transformer type) shaver socket.

Only if its 3m or more from the edge of zone 2! Sonly only very large bathrooms need apply.

If the space under the bath is not generally accessible (or only accessible using a tool) then it counts as "outside the zones" and you can install the socket (or probably more appropriately) a switched fused connection unit there.

Reply to
John Rumm

No.

Sinks do not have zones.

You see them drawn on certain websites and on the instructions for light fittings.

No zone exists.

Reply to
ARW

"Shaver supply units

What zone is the cupboard in? If its outside the zones, then normal accessories (except sockets) are ok. Shaver sockets are ok even in zone

2 allowing for the limitations mentioned by Tim above.

The zones extend away from the bath or shower, the sink itself does not not create its own zone. There are a few general rules that apply like using appropriate fittings for the location etc and a bit of common sense; so positioning accessories where they won't be splashed etc.

Reply to
John Rumm

You said "toothbrush" - so why not use the universal solution of a shaver socket?

Reply to
Tim Watts

As others have said, a shaver socket is the usual solution.

However, presumably only the toothbrushes' chargers require mains - not the toothbrushes themselves? Modern re-chargeable toothbrushes run for many days on one charge - so the charger doesn't *need* to be in the bathroom. The kids could charge them when required in their bedrooms.

Reply to
Roger Mills

Thanks all. Especially for the shaver socket tip. I had previously assumed the only difference between them and sockets was dual voltage :)

The shaver socket on the wall would work best but we have a small splashbac k and then huge mirror above the sinks so only place would be between the s inks and just off worktop level which seems a bit dodgy to me? So...

Looks like best option is shaver sockets in the cupboard below the sinks.

In terms of the spa bath then I guess running a feed to the cupboard and in stalling a ipx4 or better switch to switch it off (or maybe one of those du al pole things that we use to isolate the extractor fan) and then run this to the bath with a waterproof junction box under the bath for extra safety.

Sound ok?

So... Last 2 questions.

  1. The bath has the metal framing connected to one of the motors via an ear th lead. However the earth from the mains connection doesn't seem to be con nected to it. I would have expected to see an earth coming out of the junct ion box to connect to the frame. Any thoughts?
  2. I plan to cut into the upstairs ring main to feed this bathroom. Not a s pur buy essentially extending the ring. Any issues with this?

Thanks again for all your help

Lee.

Reply to
lee

Note that there are two types of shaver socket. The transformer based ones that are suitable for bathrooms (and usually offer dual voltage) and the non transformer based ones that are not suitable for bathrooms.

Another option is a shaver socket built into an over mirror based light fitting.

Yup you can have a remote switch for the bath feed if you want. You could place the switched fused connection unit in the cupboard, and then have that feed either a junction box or flex outlet the bath if you want.

I am not totally clear on exactly what setup you have here, so I will answer the more general questions...

If the motor units are double insulated (has the double square logo[1]) then they do not need an earth connection. However you would normally wire the connection point such that one is available in case the motor were changed later and the new one needed one. If needs be, the earth connection can be made of in a spare non connected terminal block.

[1]
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If the motors do require an earth, then the earth of the circuit feeding them should be included into the supplementary bonding in the bathroom.

The metal frame of the bath itself is typically not connected to anything outside of the room itself, and hence not capable of introducing any potential into the room. As a result it does not need including in the EQ bonding.

See

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No that's fine. Note the comments above about including its earth in the bonding for the room.

Reply to
John Rumm

No.

They run the output from a transformer (built in) and without any connection to earth. This means if you touch either contact and you are standing on a wet floor, there's no complete circuit for the current to go.

This is slightly different to the yellow 110V "site transformers" used by builders - that has a transformer from 230V to 110V, but with an earthed centre tapping. This gives (relative to earth):

55-0-55V

so the worst shock possible to ground is 55V.

Reply to
Tim Watts

Sorry for the delayed response. Thanks very much both. Very informative. Wiki article explained a lot. I will have a look at the motors later today but now I know what I am looking for.

Thanks

Lee.

Reply to
lee

Sorry for the delayed response. Thanks very much both. Very informative. Wiki article explained a lot. I will have a look at the motors later today but now I know what I am looking for.

Thanks

Lee.

Reply to
leenowell

Connecting the bath frame to the motor frame does make it able to introduce 240v in case of fault. I would earth it & feed it from an RCD or include it in equipotential bonding.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

If the motor is class I, then its supply earth should be included in the bonding, and the motor casing itself does not need independent connection. If its class II, then its case is not an extraneous conductive path, and so bonding the bath would actually increase the risk rather than lower it.

Reply to
John Rumm

Whether the motor can conduct to the bath or water depends on construction details. Class 2 certainly does not preclude it. Class 2 construction is no more a panacea than the other approaches.

bonding it to what? bathroom-wide equipotential bonding or the motor case?

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Hi all

I have had another look at the setup based on my new knowledge. There are 2 motors connected into a waterproof junction box. Looking at the junction b ox the incoming earth is connected to the earth going to both motors. There is then an earth wire going from the base of one to the metal framing whic h the legs are attached to. The motors have screws coming out of the bottom with thick rubber washers on. These screws then fed through a metal board where they are bolted in place. This board is attached to the metal framing .

The motors have a label on them but no mention of class 1 or 2.

So... Judging from the about it sounds like I should be fine with wiring th e mains into the junction box as normal. With the frame bonded to one motor and it in turn seems to be connected to the incoming earth.

On the junction box it has a label from manufacturers saying it is 2.1kW an d needs a 16a fuse. Is this ok to be on the ring main I plan to extend and located as a switched fused inside the cupboard.

Thanks again all

Lee.

Reply to
leenowell

2 motors connected into a waterproof junction box. Looking at the junction box the incoming earth is connected to the earth going to both motors. The re is then an earth wire going from the base of one to the metal framing wh ich the legs are attached to. The motors have screws coming out of the bott om with thick rubber washers on. These screws then fed through a metal boar d where they are bolted in place. This board is attached to the metal frami ng.

the mains into the junction box as normal. With the frame bonded to one mot or and it in turn seems to be connected to the incoming earth.

and needs a 16a fuse. Is this ok to be on the ring main I plan to extend an d located as a switched fused inside the cupboard.

So the pumps aren't class 2, and need treating as class 1. So you need eith er RCD or equipotential bonding.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Indeed.

Erm, no.

If the motor were class I, then they would be functionally equivalent. If the motor is class II, then bonding the bath simply means its now an extraneous conductive path where previously it was not.

Reply to
John Rumm

you certainly know how to be vague

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

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