American toilets

[sm_jamieson]

After recent trip to US/canada, I have observed that most toilets are flushed by a type of syphon (or possibly active vaccuum judging by the force of the suction) which completely empties the toilet bowl before refilling it. There is a small hole pointing toward the back of the outlet that refills the bowl. This is nothing like our washdown pans, or even our vacuum assisted types, where the cistern water causes partial vaccum in the outlet to assist emptying. Anyone know more about these US toilets, design and evolution etc. Of course the bowl syphon is not to be confused with the cistern syphon (which seems to be dissappearing anyway). I've also read the archived posts on toilet cubicles with gaps round the doors, yet highly private urinals with flush, strange I agree. Cheers, Simon.

[Brian Reay]

How odd, I've also just returned from a US trip and was pondering the exact some thing while I was there. I asked a friend out there (also a DIYer) and he said the flush worked in the same way (at least in the pan, the cistern part tends to use a "flap valve", which is now available in the UK). As we had along wait at the airport, I had some time to think on the problem.

The "throat" of the bowl seemed much smaller and there is a large "pool" of water in bowl. (Good idea to keep the bowl clean). I wonder if these factors combined give a "quick flush" that looks like a vacuum. The U seemed quite tight, so maybe the action is like this:

Bowl full, level will form at the U top lip. When you flush, a water is added slowly (compared to the UK) until there is enough to start the flush, which progresses quickly as there is a lot of "head" in the bowl. So fast, the bowl empties before enough fresh water gets in to maintain syphon level. Syphon stops and bowl refills.

Brian

[Huge]

[snip]

My mother lives in Pennsylvania and I have some experience of American toilets. The old-fashioned ones with the aforementioned syphon arrangement and a decent water volume in the flush are excellent.

I don't know about the whole of the USA, but PA now mandates low water use toilets, which are utterly crap. They don't save any water because you have to flush them 2 or 3 times and they block up if you so much as dare to do #2's in them. Absolutely useless. My mother wishes she'd kept her old-fashioned one.

[sm_jamieson]

Yep, I think the crucial thing is that it is actually a syphon, so it continues with little head of water to maintain it. With our wash-down pans, water added just pushes out the "stuff" like a normal u-bend, which is why the new 6 litre things are so feeble. I've just seen a description on

is a jet which aims water at the syphon to get things going, and little water goes down the sides, which is I think the other reason for the large disconcerting pond of water that is present - there is little wash-down action that occurs, so everything must drop under water.

Any other interesting observations about the states ? One thing for sure, the prices are never what they seem, what with tax, tips to be added on. Canada seemed even worse for that.

Cheers, Simon.

[lairdy]

Some loos in the yookay do have an element of siphonic action - certainly if the water level in the bowl drops right down and then recovers, then it is not simply washing-down. Totally agree on the lack of effectiveness of nearly all low-volume units - not met one yet which worked first-time, which seems to totally negate the point (a low volume for pees can be achieved with a two-stage flush system). The powers-that-be have British Standard turds which they claim flush away nicely with 23ml or whatever but all I can suggest is that they must bear no resemblance to proper jobs.

[Bodgit]

I lived in the US for a few years and my experience of these toilets is that the narrow "throat" (what a disgusing throught) required for the syphon also leads to many blockages. I lived there for 4 years and had

3 blockages in my toilet and heard from many others who had the same problem.

The "flap valve" system in the cystern seems like a very good idea as it's extremely simple. However, they are prone to slow leaks where limescale builds up on the flap and face. Also I've seen one where the incoming water tended to lift the flap, causing it to stick in the up position. I could only remedy this by turning the water pressure right down.

Personally I think the UK ones are better. And I don't want to talk about the German "crap on a shelf" things!

[Broadback]

At least that stops the dreaded splash back! A few years ago I visited Hong Kong, there they have automatic flushes that detect a person sitting on the seat, then flushes when that person gets up. Big snag there, lean forward too far and you get a cold and unpleasant surprise!

[Christian McArdle]

Strange, I've fitted a couple of 6 litre units and they've never had trouble flushing. Maybe my huge heavy bombs are easier to clear than the average floater.

Christian.

[Christian McArdle]

Yes. I hate those, usually found in recently refurbished airports. They don't give you time to close the lid before the flush and they usually manage to flush about 2 or 3 times during each usage, wasting huge amounts of water.

The best toilet innovation I've seen is in the US (although it only partly made up for the cubicle doors, which aren't far off having CCTV of your movements displayed on the terminal screens). It consisted of an automatic paper feeder that dragged a fresh bit of paper onto the seat when you pressed a button, so you don't need to wipe the seat and delicately balance a couple of sheets on the seat.

Christian.

[Mary Fisher]

When a son was posted to Germany and lived on the Durch border his daughters were fascinated by the lavs in a particular restaurant where the seats swung round somehow - but I can't remember the purpose. It seemed sensible at the time ...

In Canada I was impressed by the use of grey water for flushing, this was sixteen years ago before it had been heard of widely here.

Last weekend I was at the Battle of Bosworth (the wrong victor again) where a new public toilet block (Green Buildings components) is flushed entirely with low volume harvested water from an underground storage tank; hot water is provided by Solartwin panels (like ours!); and the bright internal lighting is pir and powered by pv.

Now that WAS impressive. I talked at length to the Leicestershire CC sites manager who inspired us to go further in our environmental aspirations.

Mary

[John Rumm]

The B&Q Blanco range one I fitted is actually quiet effective in that respect - it does clear the bowl every time on a 6L flush, but suffers a different flaw in that the water trap position is much nearer the front than on many pans. Thus resulting in it not being directly under the drop zone, so skid mark city!

Or proper jobbies even ;-)

[Huge]

*grin*

I never "go" in the office when visiting the US because of those bloody cubicles. I try to restrict my visits for #2's to the hotel. The ability to sit on the throne and chat eye-to-eye to your next door neighbour is not desirable, IMO.

[Phil]

This group definitely has a toilet fixation!

[Christian McArdle]

Yes. No country in the world has perfect perfect toilets.

North America has 20 cm high saloon doors with 5 cm gaps down the sides, but otherwise clean and functioning Northern Europe has steps built in so that you get to examine the previous occupant's digestive health in all its majesty and aroma. Southern Europe either has holes in the floor or no toilet seat and you have to put the toilet paper in the bin Middle East and Africa have no toilet paper, just a short bit of hose connected to a tap UK public toilets are rarely clean

Where can I go for a nice clean dump? Singapore?

Christian.

[Christian McArdle]

Talking about toilet fixation, I'm short of those bolt you connect toilets to the floor with. Does anyone know a supplier? The alternative is to rely solely on the silicone.

Christian.

[Richard Conway]

Home...nowhere else is as good IMO.

[Brian Reay]

While it is true that you have to allow for sales tax when comparing prices, the prices of most things are far lower than the UK. It is time we displayed prices without VAT so people start to recognise how much we are being ripped off.

And, don't get me started on the price of Petrol --Grrr! Again, if we displayed price with and without the taxes, may be old Gordon Brown may be a bit less convinced of his next job!

Brian

[Christian McArdle]

Nah. I really HATE the american habit of not showing the proper price. It is impossible to tell what you have the cash to buy, or to get the change ready.

Petrol should be expensive, to discourage use and encourage the development of alternative technologies.

Christian.

[Jerry]

with tax,

comparing prices,

being ripped

Perhaps if what the tax paid for he would, and that would go for any Chancellor.

Funny how people don't like paying tax but still want all that the tax pays for...

[Owain]

"You-all had sweetcorn and jell-o again last night, Huge?"

Owain