Why did the breaker trip after a power outage?

Last night I was at a local tavern when the power went out in a large section of town. This was probably due to a storm outdoors. The power was only out for about 2 minutes. When it came back on, one wall containing several neon beer signs, a jukebox, and 4 video games did not come back on, while the rest of the building was fine. The bartender found that the breaker for that one wall had tripped, and had to reset it. Once reset, everything was fine.

I dont understand why a power outage would cause that breaker to trip????

My only thought is that this circuit is drawing near it's maximum amperage capacity for that breaker, and the surge of all those devices caused it to trip. Yet, if this is the case, why did it not trip when it was reset? The surge would be the same..... However, I got to thinking that when the whole section of town was turned back on, that the voltage would be low for a few seconds due to all the loads, and the lower voltage to those devices would cause then to attempt to compensate by drawing more amps...... Then the thought would be whether it's the electronics in the jukebox and video games, or the high voltage transformers on the neon signs that would draw the excess current? Does this make sense?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks

Reply to
tangerine3
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I may find out what the load is on that breaker one of these days. I'm friends with the owner and I might just take my amp meter over there when they are not busy and do some tests. I kind of think that breaker is overloaded. It's an old building and these days the taverns keep getting more and more electronic gadgets, plugged into old wiring. Video games and a jukebox should not use more power than a computer or stereo, but when you add them all up, it could be at it's limit, along with the neon signs. I'm not sure what a neon sign uses for power? I'd not think much, but I could be wrong. If that's a 15A breaker, it might be at it's limit.

I was planning to check out one of their florescent lights anyhow, since it keeps going on an off. Probably just needs new bulbs. I may as well check both things at once. The owner is struggling to keep the place open because of lacking funds, and cant afford to call an electrician for every little thing, so I'm happy to help. Its a small business run by good people......

Reply to
tangerine3

Neon signs use transformers do they not? Don't many use 12 volts? Maybe unbalanced current in a couple of these transformers can trip the breaker when they are fired on all at once. just a humble guess

Reply to
Duesenberg

Breakers do not always respond in milliseconds. Most common ones work by heat. The more current that is passed through them, the faster they will trip. If several electrronic devices or motors try to start back up at the same time, the breaker could be overloaded. If they are powered up one at a time,the breaker may not trip. Many devices require more current to start than they do a few seconds or so after they are startred.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

I do not know about the newer ones, but the old type use a transformer that puts out around 10,000 volts.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

Neon lights would be like that too. They would need more current to intialilly come on than to stay on.

Reply to
Duesenberg

you might be right on the voltage. I was thinking of newer stle LED lights made to look like neon. I've looked at the labels on those, but not real neon lights...

However my guess that the transformers are failing stands. Would explain the flickering.

Reply to
Duesenberg

...

I think most bar signs and such are designed for 120V AC plug ins but that's a guess; I never investigated. If they're old as sounds like might be from the description of the locale, the inrush current could be significant just like an electric motor as compared to operating current.

Supply voltages of 15 kV or thereabouts at mA currents. Roughly 200 W/50 running-ft of tube. Small window signs thus aren't much individually.

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Reply to
dpb

You could ask the owner if the breaker that controls the circuit in question gets warm. I never really used the touch test to trouble shoot, but if the breaker is warm it may be close to the trip point.

Reply to
Metspitzer

You're correct. They put out high voltages, higher than the spark plugs in a car. I have one of the transformers and it was fun the day I got it to see how long of an arc it would throw. An inch was normal. I actually think the older ones put out even higher voltages. probably around 15kv. I know I would not want to touch it..... My livestock fences operate at 2000 to 5000kv and I know what that feels like!!!

Reply to
tangerine3

LED signs are a whole different matter. They are NOT neon signs. These are the REAL neon signs. LED would draw little current.

Who said anything about flickering neon signs? I didn't!!!!

I said there is a florescent ceiling light that is going on an off, and it's not on this same circuit, so it has nothing to do with this problem. I just intend to change the bulbs or ballast (whatever it needs).

Reply to
tangerine3

I guess it all came on the same time after failure. That might rule out that possibility. I have turned certain transformers on, and depending on what part of the ac cycle, blew fuses. Some things are going to draw more current at lower initial turn on too.

Greg

Reply to
gregz

Many common breakers are just that. Over current devices. They are not made to be used as switches and cut off and on every day. There are some made that can be used for switches.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

I know that CRT computer monitors and crt tv sets always draw a lot of power upon starting. When I had them, I could see a surge on the room lights, particularly when a dimmer was installed.

One of the games still is a CRT type. I was there tonite again, and talked to the owner about it. I also noticed that I mis-counted. There are actually 6 games, a jukebox, 3 signs a clock, and an ATM machine all on that circuit. I also found out that the day they opened the bar some years ago, they had a power failure. An electrician came and found almost every outlet, except the ones behind the bar on the same circuit. He split it into 4 breakers. One for each wall. But he said that back then they only had 2 or 3 video games and a jukebox in the whole place. The company the furnishes the games keeps bringing in more and more stuff. He said the revenue from these games is small, but it all helps pay the bills. But he also said the electric bill is much higher than it used to be. Kind of makes me wonder if it's worth having all those games.... I seldom see them being used.....

Reply to
tangerine3

Look up "inrush current".

Reply to
G. Morgan

Understood. Was not reading your post carefully, my apologies.

Reply to
Duesenberg

This is usually the case for storms...being outdoors! *L*

Reply to
Bob_Villa

You never had one of these?

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.

This is usually the case for storms...being outdoors! *L*

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

take a clamp on ampmeter, they work well, and are now cheap to buy and easy to use

Reply to
bob haller

maybe just replace the breaker. breaker age/fatigue could have it tripping = at say 12 amps instead of 15. use a "kill a watt" meter at any outlet. elec= tricians use a clamp on ammeter at the panel. test each device to match the= ir wattage plates. you can call the power company on a slow day to check th= eir power lines to the building meter for any damage. you can request a re= placement power meter from the company.

Reply to
buffalobill

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