Air filtration.

On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:47:45 +0000, T i m wrote:

------------------------------------------------
I can't really offer any advice on this because my tests were done over 50 years ago and medicine has probably moved on since then!
In those distant days it was freely offered to me as I was suffering quite badly. My experience was that the desensitisation was quite unpleasant and ineffective. One item which showed up in the tests was a strong allergy to camel fur but it's never really troubled me. I think that most GPs would be more than happy to refer you to a hospital for tests as it's so much easier for them.

------------------------------------------------
I don't really think that this makes much difference either way unless there is some kind of mould in the damp plaster. I don't believe the old wives' tales about cold and damp being dangerous. It may be unpleasant but it's really only water vapour and of course it won't show up in the allergy tests. Obviously it will be more comfortable if the old plaster is replaced but you'll still have a cold wall. Proper heating / ventilation is the best and most immediate answer.
Cic.
================================================Using Ubuntu Linux Windows shown the door ================================================
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I sometimes wonder. ;-(

Oh.
You didn't do this in Egypt did you? ;-)

Ok, I'll see how it goes.

I'm not aware that there is but I do know the plaster is soft / patchy in places and I've never been one put stuff over stuff etc. Also I didn't know if having the old render there was a good idea, it taking up space where something better (thermally) might go?

Nor me (in fact 'cold' can be good in many cases) but if it creates actual problems (like cold spots that attract condensation) then I guess it's not so good.

Of course.

Till I line it etc.
The bedroom(s) would be quite easy to do (thermal improvements) and I would probably be doing them along with actually putting some flooring down over the floorboards in a couple of places (like half the hall). However, I think I would only be doing it because of the side effects like condensation rather than energy conservation as we don't generally heat those areas in any case (us adapting to suit the house rather than adapting the house to suit us).

Well the ventilation bit is easy to do (windows) <g> but brings in wit it it's own issues (road / vehicle dust etc).
Does anyone do any forced (positive pressure) filtered ventilation solutions?
Cheers, T i m

p.s. A mate gave me an old PC from his office yesterday and I wiped - re-installed Windows and made it dual boot with Ubuntu while I was there. I used Ubuntu as a LiveCD to get the Windows drivers for the USB WiFi dongle that came with it (as Ubuntu found it on it's own) then did the Windows updates etc. I'd have to say it probably took about the same time to install and update XPH-SP3 as it did Ubuntu 9.1 but then I didn't need to do the AV bit with Linux. ;-)
I've been trying to expose those people who just use their PC's as web terminals to Ubuntu in the thought that it should be more durable.
Me, "What do you use your PC for".
Them, "Just browsing the web, email, Facebook etc"
(I install Ubuntu for them. Two days later ..)
Them, "How can I run iTunes and my phone software, the kids games, MSN, (and not a MSN compatible client) ... "
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Discuss with your doctor, but they often treat the effect not cause :-)

If you ever do roof maintenance - Get someone to fit rain caps over the pots - A sign of high water ingress is U-cupped floorboards

Cheap but very good - some noise even on low: - X-Dry on Ebay for about £99-129, new is £189 (not much more). Puts out about 440-750W of heat, uses a rotating disc of silica gel and probably peltier system to condense moisture back out. They are very powerful even at low temperatures. The airflow even on "Low" is a bit high for domestic use. - Ruby Dry, but buy new as many on Ebay are reconditioned and can be a bit rough. New is £199. Same technology as the X-Dry, not as well built, but lower noise and airflow. - Best dehumifier is Mitsubishi EVX, but they are £300 new (and last several years)
Use vacuum cleaners regularly.

Cavity Wall Insulation which you can't as solid brick.
If you ever decorate... - Primer-G or SBR the walls (waterproof seal) - Mapei Keraflex skim (slurry to waterproof) - a) Marmox 20mm 30mm if no wall depth available re door frames - b) Celotex/Kingspan 25mm between 1" treated battens, then cover in another 25-35-40mm Celotex, then plasterboard, then a flash skim of plaster (so you can remove wallpaper without ripping the plasterboard apart
Uninsulated solid 9" wall has U = 2.11, R = 0.47. - Adding 20mm Marmox, U = 1.50, R = 0.60 - Combined U = 1 / (0.47+0.60) = 0.93 - 56% reduction in heat loss, 440W required vs 1000W before
Uninsulated solid 9" wall has U = 2.11, R = 0.47. - Adding 50mm Celotex, U = 0.40, R = 2.00 - Combined U = 1 / (0.47+2.00) = 0.40 - 81% reduction in heat loss, 190W required vs 1000W before
I mention Marmox because even where door frames go right into the walls, and you have double door frames (ie, no way of being able to move them), you can still replace 16mm plaster with 20mm Marmox and achieve better than halving of heat loss. The vastly warmer wall to the touch will reduce draughts and improve comfort.

Hmmm :-)

Despite what many say, carpet is fine when regularly vacuumed. It is warm, insulative and acoustically good. However do you have wooden floors downstairs, I assume all external vents are clear - ie, no standing water underneath which would not help above. PU underlay are about double the Tog rating (by virtue of their great thickness) compared to waffle-rubber type.

Argos surprisingly do the "midi" Honeywell HEPA filter for £78. Homebase also list the "midi" 5018E version. That is a very good price, they used to be £149 199 259 for small-medium-large. Amazon list the replacement filter drum on its own, the actual "midi" is £169 which is the more usual price so Argos seem to have got some cheap probably as the slightly older design (nothing wrong with it). It is made like 1980s IT equipment compared to "Samsung construction today".
The largest is the best, but the midi should be "as close as makes no difference" because I doubt the largest is available for anywhere near £78. The HEPA filters in normal non-continuous domestic use last several years and you can actually just vacuum the prefilters (I always have and mine are 9yrs old, no problem at all). The carbon layer may be stuffed but that is not critical really if non-smokers. Just run on minimum, they usually have a soft-start.
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I have little faith in any of them and in spite of generally being able to give them a very accurate description of my symptoms have never had a 'cure' (not that I expect a cure in all cases of course but even when one was available I've generally dumped what they prescribed and sorted it myself).

Check.
No sign of damp on the chimney breasts, even those that are unused or still in plaster trim? ;-)

K?
Erm, is this the same eBay as I'm using (.co.uk) as I can see no reference to either? ;-(

;-)
Indeed.

LOL.
Is this a good idea. I thought (especially with this sort of solid wall) that they should be allowed to breathe?

I think we are ok there. It's pretty well a plain blank wall.

What is the purpose of the battens then?

Ok.
Nice. The other wall is South facing and has two double glazed / uPVC windows. Because of the windows I don't think it would be quite so easy to treat in this way?

So this is just the losses through that one wall ('feck' if it is). ;-(
FWIW we have a single slimline storage rad on there on e7 and it seems to cope ok (and is rarely on all night (it cut's in when it needs towards the end of the charge period))

Hmmm. Sounds like it might need a further look for all the other external walls that haven't already been re-plastered etc (or even the main flank / stairwell / hall that has?).

Nice.
Well it's a little North facing box room so I built a bed up across the whole end (full sized single) over a full width / 1m deep desk. I also built a flight of stairs that are also storage and easier on bare feet than ladders. 25 years later our 19 year old daughter and her 6'4" b/f are sharing it! ;-)

We should regularly vacuum you say? ;-)

Hmm. So carpet tiles could be ok then (and are durable, easy to lay and a bit warmer than laminate?).

Everywhere except the kitchen / rear addition.

Pretty sure that's all ok, yep.

Ok, something else to consider then thanks (and something we might be looking at soon).

The reviews aren't very encouraging noise wise, unless I'm going to leave it on in a spare room (door open) or just when I'm making dust etc?

Ok.
Apart from it being more noisy possibly?

I like it. ;-)

Ok, and at that price it would be worth a crack?

I like it.

No one has ever smoked in the 30 years we have been here. That's also why the ceilings are still white. ;-)

Ok, Thanks.
Cheers, T i m
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Dehumidifiers were "all sold" by late November. People buy them in winter, then sell them early spring usually - boats, sheds, garages, car people, etc.

They breathe externally unless you have a waterproof render & lime plaster internally.

Primer-G & SBR on the wall seal it. Mapei Keraflex is a cementituous adhesive which waterproofs it (you do not want the dew point moving out of the wall into the interstitial space between wall and plasterboard or it will simply saturate with water, rotting the battens and getting rather nasty).
Then you mount wooden 25mm battens to the wall surface whilst the keraflex is still wet, between the battens you fit 25mm Celotex. Over the battens you fit 25mm Celotex, then plasterboard. The idea of Celotex over the battens is to prevent cold bridging and the battens provide something to screw the plasterboard to.

The windows should be "set-back" from the internal wall face in the window reveal (cutout in the wall). So the insulation thickness merely affects the window reveal board (replace by 12.5mm celotex, 10-12.5mm marmox to reduce the cold bridge) and the window sill inside (fit a deeper one or router a tongue & groove and extend accordingly).

Yes it can be. The worse rooms are "box rooms" with 2 outer walls. However with sold brick walls, any are bad because I am not convinced the U value consider the water content after say 11wks of heavy rain and then cold weather. Wet brickwork will have very poor insulation value compared to dry. Perhaps the figures accommodate it.

With solid brick walls you should feel a cold draught plunging off them, particularly in hallways due to the height and usually the stairs acting as a "tunnel" downwards. That cold draught can be removed by insulation - as well as reducing the heating you require.
Solid double brick have the greatest need for insulation (4x worse than an insulated cavity wall).

YES if you have any respiratory allergies :-) Very often that alone eliminates the problem.

Carpet over PU underlay will give you the best thermal benefit, you lose about 25-30% of your heat through the floor and from experience of uninsulated concrete with quarry tiles there is a very noticeable difference between tredaire waffle rubber and tredaire 11mm PU Dreamwalk. On the latter my calves ached within 20secs, with Dreamwalk there is none of that coldness. The carpet is "self-underlay" with felt, hessian backed so it has perhaps 4Tog rather than the usual 3 or Dreamwalk - the original waffle rubber was about 1.13Tog.

Ebay is good for 15m-sq rolls, about £38 delivered.

Had not checked reviews, but yes - noise is the issue. Minimum is not too bad, but forget "PC quiet type of noise". It's a big radial fan with high resistance air filter, but compared to suffering with hayfever a 10min run lasts quite some time. One point to note is regular HEPA vacuuming negates the need to run it, I have not run it for the past 2yrs - 2 Miele vacuum's with their own cleaner bags and HEPA panel filter.

£78 is a bargain. The actual drum filter is about £32-40 (however it will never need changing).
Since it is Argos I think you might be able to return it if you do not like it (check for the symbol), if so check Homebase. Alternatively Ebay it because they do sell - people know they work and are aware of the noise.
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I've never got into this buy-use-sell-thing. That's probably why this house is so full of stuff. ;-(

So condensation is trapped in the room then?

So you are screwing the plasterboard against the Celotex using the batten 25 mm away?

They are pretty near flush with the outside walls, yes.

So this would really need to be done before the reveal was finished / plastered then (or I lose some of the windows frame)?

Or 3 in our case.

Latent heat of vaporisation as well?

It is cold in the hall that's for sure but then it's unheated so it's bound to be.

The 'problem' is how to deal with the stairs etc. I guess you could fit a mock side to the stairs to bring the new insulation down onto?

But in the milder days our huge flank wall acts like a big storage radiator as the sun is on it most of the afternoon then it radiates heat indoors during the evening / night?

Doh!
Ok.
Ok.
Maybe we are used to it. The bathroom / toilet is just thin lino tiles straight on some self leveling on concrete. It's cold to the bare feet and that's why we wear slippers. ;-)

Would this underlay apply to carpet tiles would you know or would you insulate under hardboard etc?

Thanks.
I guess it would be possible to build a diy solution where the fan is remoted (another room or under the floor etc)?

K.
Assuming there isn't actually a workable 'quiet' solution. Like all things you can manage what you can measure but I can't afford a particle counter. ;-(

Ok.
You can so we might see later. ;-)

Fair point.
Cheers, T i m
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

In fact it's a lorry sized air filter in a plastic case and stilting on a fan! ;-)
As you say, it's *just* tolerable as background noise but very powerful.
This afternoon daughter decided tidy up the sofa and in so doing seemed to stir up (as seen in a little halogen desk lamp I have here) a bit of a snow storm of dust particles. ;-(
I turned the purifier on (lowest level) and instantly noticed a 'flow' to the dust. Over the next 15 mins it reduced from 'good gawd' to 'where have they gone' (even whilst looking through a magnifying glass). That's only the stuff we could see of course but on the grounds that smaller stuff would likely to stay in suspension longer and travel with the stuff we could see then it looks promising.
So, it should be good to have on when we are likely to be making a bit of dust and / or of any of us are suffering from any hay fever / dust related type issues.
Thanks for the heads-up js,b1. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
3M's kit does work very well. If they can achieve pollen filtration without the noise, that would be a huge benefit - the bugbear of the Honeywell systems is they actually DO sound like a library-sized HVAC plant sitting next to you. It's a collosally loud whitenoise with whirrr from a high speed radial fan when set to maximum.
You do not actually need HEPA to trap pollen, if that is the cause. 3M products work extremely well, they are just morons when it comes to marketing and an impenetrable website to impenetrable product support. Basically worse than HPQ and far worse than IBM ever were (who had a product range code system larger than the known universe). It's the "Mining" part of MMM that customers are required to do themselves :-)
If the 3M product is quiet, I would give that a try - if Amazon do it they are good with returns (half way to John Lewis, but not the customer service of Amazon USA which is still superior "can do anything, will do anything"... probably hack crazed californians :-)
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I'd be happy if it was pollen and house mite dust etc.

Hmm.
One of the review site for many different makes and models of such machine mentioned that they nearly didn't site the 3M gear as they suggested 'Their system was as good if not better than HEPA for a greater flow rate'. However they did concede that 3M were probably right but for not a wide a spectrum of stuff or reasons that may be covered by 'HEPA'.

Ah.
;-)
Ok, well that's a though. I don't generally buy things with the thought that I could take them back (do sufficient research to minimise the risk etc) but that's worth thought.
I wonder if Argos would be as good if it didn't actually work but wasn't 'broken' as such (as they are at the top of our road)?
Cheers, T i m
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

yup modern non-drowsy antihistamine

?? why stopped? what did you read on steroids? not the "moon face" of systemic steroids?
I've been "on" both those for over 5 years with no (identifiable :>)) probs....
Would you say your chest could be asthma? Are you allergic to aspirin? (if you don;t know plse don't "just" test - seriously..)
Cheers JimK
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:30:15 -0800 (PST), JimK

Is there an over_the_counter (cheaper) equiv as I've got to ring the Doc for a repeat prescription soon?

Erm ...

That they don't actually cure anything directly and can cave some unpleasant side effects (especially if you can do without them). Even if it wasn't true (and even if some of the side effects mentioned on the paperwork with this Nasonex are true I'd not need to read elsewhere) I'd rather pass if possible.

Not had any dealings with them myself up to now but like I said if it's the choice of rock or hard place ...

Good. ;-)

I don't know, never had asthma nor been close to anyone who has to know how it feels etc.

I'm not allergic to anything that I'm aware of ... yet something isn't right. ;-(
Cheers, T i m
p.s. I have enjoyed the ability to answer all the typical questionnaires in the negative ...
"Have you had any car claims, convictions, disabilities, been refused insurance ... "
No.
"Have you ever been refused finance ...."
No.
"Are you allergic to any ... "
No
"Do you have any implants, contact lenses, artificial limbs ...."
No
"Have you ever smoked, do you drink [1], taken any drugs or are you on any medication ..."
Do antihistamines and statins count?
[1] Just the occasional Special Brew. ;-)
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 20/12/2009 21:46, T i m wrote:

That is available OTC. Available from (among others):
<http://www.pharmacy2u.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?code=GHAR30
Somewhat cheaper than the branded versions such as Benadryl, Zirtec, Pollenshield, etc. - and than an NHS prescription (at least for 30 tablets).
(However, as I said in another post, I prefer Loratadine, another non-drowsy anti-histamine. Also even cheaper.)
--
Rod

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Ah, handy. Do we know they are safe etc (seen bad things about 'Internet drugs')? Also, not sure I trust a Co who suggest these tablets will give:
"•Immediate solution the pain and irritation of your sensitive teeth •One 10 minute application gives you immediate relief" ;-)

Ok.
Yup, £7.20 or summat? ;-(

Ah, I read that but as I didn't think I was "anyone who uses Loratadine (e.g. Clarityn) as their chosen anti-histamine" I didn't follow it up. ;-(
Cheers, T i m
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 20/12/2009 22:28, T i m wrote: <>

<> I wouldn't for a moment dismiss concerns about 'Internet drugs', but we have bought a fair variety from some UK and US companies. Always careful to make out own assessments of the companies and check their reputations so far as we can. All products have been spot on, real, good, as described - so far as we have been able to tell. Indeed, some have proved to be more reliable than UK pharmacy dispensed versions of the same prescription medicines.
Must admit, that link is to a company we have not used but I have seen others mention them. Yes - that sensitive teeth comment does sound like a claim too far for the tablets!
--
Rod

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The Mrs uses Healthspan for cod liver oil and the like but they aren't 'medicines' as such.

Good idea.

But that's the rub isn't it, if it's something that is low dose / background / see_how_you_go sorta thing (like my statins) the only way you might know they weren't working was if whatever it is changed enough to be noticeable. Like I would have to have a blood test and be sure it wasn't anything else that affected my cholesterol levels (that were only marginally high in the first place).

I was about to say that. ;-(

LOL. Seriously though, I wouldn't hold that against them if all the other signs were good.
Cheers, T i m
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I found the exact same thing in a pound shop today (so £1 / 7) . ;-)
Time will tell if they make any difference.
Maybe if I grow another hand I'll be able to type faster. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

If you have an allergic reaction going on *until* and *if* you can find a cure Nasonex et al help with the symptoms. I You could try em for a week? -you may feel a lot better - then stop if it still scares you...

True Steroids per se don't cure, but neither do (any) antihistamines - they are all symptom relievers.

google for the symptoms - ask yourself the questionnaire ! :>)

Ah yes the essential natural therapeutic cure-nearly-all health liquor :>))
CHeers hic JimK
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:25:58 -0800 (PST), JimK

So, what exactly are they supposed to help please. Like, the day I went to the Doc was the first complete clear / breathable day I'd had for about 5 weeks. She prescribed the Nasal spray and antihistamines and I started using both straight away. Ironically I couldn't use the spray as I went all blocked up again and it was a rare moment where I could actually breath through my nose enough to inhale the spray (but only because it was blocked, not swollen AFAIK).
Right now, after nearly 30 days 'just' on the antihistamines I might sneeze once every other day, blow my nose now ad again and have been breathing / sleeping easy for a few days (it did go downhill at days 15-20 but that could have been a cold that the rest of the family seemed to have at the time). During this total period (now 80 days or so) the environment hasn't changed and nor has my diet etc?

I could once I know what they are supposed to do for me.

And further there is suggestion they can do irreparable harm. Personally I try to take nothing till I have to.

But I'm not sure I've read or been told they are as 'bad' as steroids might be?

Ok. In any case I don't think I have asthma. I have always had a breathing 'issue', even as a fit 15 year old I could either do the 100m on one breath or the cross country [1] as a steady pace. I couldn't do the 200m as I would simply run out of breath.

Oh yes and how so many tramps stay well in spite of living in cold damp and dirty places and with little in the way of food. ;-)

;-)
Cheers, T i m
p.s. I found the following when trying to help a mate find some steroids for his elderly dog.
http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/Article.Steroids
I don't 'believe' all it says but it did make me think.
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

reduce inflammation.
Systemically as in your dog link (oral pills higher dose not good for *long* periods (usually in UK a week or so at a time is usual - at 20-30mg per day))
Topical (sprays creams ointments etc)- much lower dose so safer and more useful as easier to get to where they can help. In my and (probly) your case up our hooters

Google is sometimes your friend :>)

Obviously *if* you don;t need them or cannot benefit from their use then don't take/use them.... However if you never try for fear of marginal risks of marginal side effects you won't ever know... (flat earth etc)
I'd be seriously surprised if you suffer any harm for 2 weeks use and certainly nothing that wouldn't repair itself (e,g, any spooky osteoporosis from your dog link etc) on the other hand it may help and improve your symptoms - if it does then the next time you see the quack he'll be a step closer to diagnosing what the F is going on.

Consider telling the quack when you go back - it's probly all related / worth investigating.

"well" is a relative thing - TB, liver disease, Hepatitis god knows what else under the surface.
BTW I'm quite partial to a skinful every once in a while - I'm not some preaching teetotaller :>)

like I say its all relative risk/benefit ratios and most of those "ruinous" effects are generally from high dose long term systemic use.
America especially has had a long love affair with systemic steroids thrown around with abandon as the first drug of choice for any inflammation problem however caused - the problems start as patients feel "fantastic" within days of starting taking steroids and feel Sh1t when they stop - hence they demand a repeat scrip and the spiral begins....
Nasonex is very low targeted topical dose - so those horror stories I believe would not apply (and honest guv I ain't a Nasonex junkie I can quit anytime - honest! sniff etc :>))
Cheers JimK
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
T i m wrote on 19/12/2009 :

No one has mentioned electrostatic dust collection - might this not work?
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.