I'm going to replace the pump gauge. The water storage tanks are mostly in the almost full range. We don't use much water. Probably 100 gallons a day or so (I'm guessing).
My plan is simple at the moment, now that I know how the thing works.
Replace the gauge at the booster pump
Determine at what pressure the motor turns on (and off)
Fill the bladder to 2 psi less than the motor turns on (or, adjust the pressure the motor turns on - but maybe not)
Meanwhile... A. Try to find a source for the entire pump + motor assembly, or, B. Try to find a source for a parts diagram
Then... a. Wait for the pump to not go on when it's supposed to go on, and, b. Measure whether it's the pump or the switch that is failing.
Well, that for me, too, probably if it's more than barest basics; and I'm not faulting him for not knowing much about the system--what gets me is that even when he's spending time looking at things he doesn't seem to actually _SEE_ what is there -- not observing the pressure tap going to the pressure switch, having looked up and posted a pdf on the pressure tank itself and still then not checking what's under those little caps, just the most basic of just observing what is in front of his eyes...
I pointed that out not with the intent to insult or denigrate but to try to prod to be more attentive.
"You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra
Depends on whether you're replacing the motor, too... :) or whether by "entire" you mean the motor _and_ pump.
Of course, if you by a matched set together, they'll fit; if you by separately, then "yes, it does matter" in that since the pump bolts to the face of the motor, they have to be of commensurate dimensions.
To be truthful, until someone mentioned it - I simply thought the "bare thick wire" was a ground. It didn't even occur to me that the pressure tap was a "tube" as I never expected to see a tube sticking out of a motor (where I was unaware that the front was the "pump").
A lot has to do with expectations.
For example, I can tell diffusion from poly in a chip layout, and I know that in layout-versus-schematic physical verification tools, they often can't determine a lightly doped drain - but I don't know a jet pump from a non jet pump.
To be fair to me, I never once claimed I was a genius. I never claimed to know more than I do.
I am not embarrassed to say I never heard of, oh, a Schrader valve being on a pressure bladder - simply because I never once _thought_ about the pressure bladder. I never had a reason to think of it. I've never owned a house with one before, for example (my previous city water didn't have them).
If I claimed to be a genius - then you could fault me for being ignorant of how things work and of not noticing things that you knew a priori.
Having said that, I do fully *agree* with you that I thought the pressure switch was a mere relay, and therefore it was a mystery to me how the pressure was sensed!
Now I realize that it was very stupid of me to not notice what you've helped me notice - and I'm not at all embarrassed to admit that - just like I blew a hole in my arm just two weeks ago by forgetting to set the carbon dioxide pressure appropriately when essentially running experiments blowing up bottles!
I think that's unfair as I did check what's under the caps.
In fact, I opened the Schrader valve cap first - but I also wanted to see what was under the other cap (which someone kindly told me was a threaded nut for a carrying hook - which makes sense).
I fully agree with your observation that I didn't notice how the system works, and where it didn't occur to me to check the bladder pressure, nor did I notice the pressure transfer tube from the pump to the pressure switch.
It's no different than the transmission clutch I did about two weeks ago where I didn't know where the pilot bearing was from where the throwout bearing was, and where I clearly performed the job nonetheless, with the help from people on this newsgroup.
If I can get to the rear oil seal, as shown in this pictures, I "can" learn since this was the first clutch job in my entire life.
I wanted to do a clutch, at least once, before I die - where you guys were instrumental in giving me the courage to perform the job successfully!
Although, what I learned was that the next time, if that ever happens (it probably won't), I would replace more parts than just what I originally planned (particularly the rear engine oil seal & rear tranny oil seal):
It seems if I replace the whole thing, not much matters other than the
1HP spec ...
But if I replace just the motor - then the 56C frame matters a lot.
Thanks for asking a clarifying question, as I was remiss in not being clear that I meant replacing "both" the motor and the "jet pump impeller" or whatever that heavy steel end is called.
Interestingly, the motor plate says "jet pump motor", but, as far as I can tell, it's just a "motor", right? (the heavy steel part is the 'jet' part, right?)
I mean, what's different about a "jet pump motor" from a "motor" when the jet pump part is *outside* the motor anyway?
BTW, here's a video of a "jet pump" being disassembled: where they say the pump is "stainless steel".
It should just be called a "motor" or a "pump motor" but the motor doesn't appear to be any different for a "jet pump" than for a "regular" pump.
Q: What's different between a "jet pump motor" and a "motor"? Looking that up.... this Popular Mechanics article explains jets a bit:
Apparently, if plumbed for a "2-pipe jet assembly", it helps the well pump:
So, in this case, the motor part appears to simply be just a "motor", and not really a "jet pump motor"; it just happens to be attached to a cast-iron assembly that can be used as a "jet", it seems.
The "jet pump" can be used to assist a deep well - but mine isn't being used that way (apparently).
BTW, this FAQ says the motor should be sized such that the pump runs for at least 2 minutes, where mine ran for 3 minutes from an overnight discharge.
The problem they wish to avoid they call "rapid cycling", so I will listen tomorrow if I can to a normal cycle to see how long the pump runs where I will time it to see if it's at least 2 minutes (which I never knew mattered until now).
Nothing. The manufacturer just decided to label it that way. Maybe so you'd come back to them for a new motor.
How long it runs is determined by:
A -How big the tank is
B - Whether the tank has the correct amount of air/pre-charge. Worst case the tank is almost full of water and it only runs seconds.
C - How easy it is to suck up the water
In your case, the pump has water above ground level, so it's going to pump easily and quickly, that will shorten the run time compared to if it was pulling it from 30 ft down. A longer run time means less wear/tear on the pump and a little less energy used.
IDK, but when you were proposing to use the gauge off the air compressor I meant to tell you it's probably not a good idea, but forgot to. I would expect some at least are air only.
DPB was working you through what the right pre-charge is on the tank, I don't remember how you're supposed to set it exactly, but 18 PSI sounds low, which would lead to a shorter pump cycle.
I appreciate the advice as you've been right as has dpb (and I've been wrong almost the entire time - but I'm catching up... :)
I agree that *something* isn't working with that air-pressure gauge. Neither gage says anything about "air" versus "liquid", where I assume it's a Bourdon tube.
I don't have a choice at this point - so I'm putting the old one back. But, the old one *did* drop to 18 psi when I removed it, so, it's not reading accurately either as it should read zero psi.
So I'll just go and buy a "liquid" pressure gauge - which shouldn't be hard to find I would think.
I think he was telling me to put it at 2 psi lower than the turn-on pressure - where - I have no clue what that turn on pressure actually is without good gauges.
I'm going to assume though, that 38 psi isn't a bad starting point, since that was the "original" factory preset (according to the sticker) and air never leaks in.
I think my short-term homework is to: a. Replace the pump gauge with one that works. b. Pressurize the bladder to 38 psi c. See what happens
Long term, I (think I) have to A. Source a pump and/or parts (I prefer parts obviously) B. Learn how to set the off/on/hysteresis points
I just got home so I'm running down the water pressure as we type, so I can report back relatively quickly when I put the old gauge back in.
That sounds about right. Typical on/off is maybe ~40 and ~60. If you get the pre-charge higher, the pump should run longer. Worst case, if the tank has no air, they get water logged and the pump cycles on and off in just a few seconds.
Thanks. I first want to see what happens with the old motor pump gauge put back - and then - tomorrow - I'll charge it the bladder to 38 psi (although I may wait until I get a good gauge on that motor).
Right now, it's all charged up where the bladder is at 58 psi while the motor gauge reads, strangely, an indicated 44 psi so we can't trust anything out of that motor gauge (which is what you guys were saying all along).
I'll pick up a "liquid" pressure gauge - whatever that is - either at Home Depot, or Harbor Freight, or an auto parts store if I can.
PS: I just realized there might be 'crud' in the pressure gauge hole, so, when I replace the gauge, I'll blow some air in there to clean it out.
Zoomed in from this previous photo ... this is the hole where the pump motor pressure gauge is going into Maybe I need to clean out the crud - it's hard to tell...
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