Well, when you look at the overview, since the switch box is mounted directly on the motor, the two going to it can't be anything else leaving only the two to the right... :)
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Actually that will be closer to 50 psi or so if the switch is adjusted to anything close to a normal 20 lb cycle. For this application they may have tightened that up some but that would be normal. That relates back to your other comment last evening regarding being surprised didn't pull in again after you'd broken contact after a short running time.
From the above comment regarding colors, it looks to me like _perhaps_ the two supplies (blue) have been hot from the connectors leading to discoloration of the insulation. It may just be from exposure but that they're blackened ends and then transition to pristine as get farther from the connectors makes me question.
I'd check on that while the pump has been running a while and also see about cleaning up those connections. I'm not that keen on the slide-on connectors for higher current applications; there's really not that much good contact area often.
Oh, from pictures one can't tell, the insulation doesn't _look_ hardened but if that were so it would a be dead giveaway "Houston, we have a problem"...
Ah. Good point. I was equating pump & motor, where they're clearly different.
The motor ends at the spinning shaft. The pump is that cast iron stuff with all the pipes attached to it.
I agree that replacing the whole thing (pump + motor) is probably better than trying to rebuild the motor and seals since I can't easily source the motor bearings and seals without having better proactive sources (like a good parts diagram).
I'm ok with plumbing although I'd prefer less rather than more of it.
Agreed. Thanks for the clarification that: a. Any pump of similar rating will do, as, b. It doesn't need to be a "jet pump".
I agree that the only thing that matters is the "form factor" which means it has to fit with the pipes without too much redesign of piping if I replace the entire pump.
If I replace the entire pump, I'd likely replace the pressure switch at the same time I would think.
Thanks for that chart - although I had to grab my magnifying glasses!
Given I'm looking for a frame 56C:
The frame is a 56C according to the label...
Unfortunately as you noted, the third line of your chart has a "56" and a "56H" but no "56C" (where the "C" may or may not be significant).
The nice thing is the chart has measurements so I may need to get a rule up there and take some...
Air pressure? You can adjust the air pressure? Who knew there's a Schrader valve on top of that blue tank! Not me!
I left the circuit breaker off all night and tested things this morning, which helped a *lot* for me to figure out what is happening during normal operation!
With only dribbles of water at the house, the gauge read about 60 psi:
The bladder tank was empty of water (as I could tilt it about an eighth of an inch, and the faucet on the shed outside wall only dribbled):
As a test of INPUT pressure from the storage tanks alone, I shut both valves that send water to the pump and bladder, and I turned on the normally closed valve that goes directly to the house and to that faucet on the wall of the shed.
The result is that *this* is the input pressure from the two parallel storage tanks alone (which isn't bad for no pump or bladder at all):
Interestingly, that test dropped the gauge pressure to 55 psi:
Looking for the Schrader valve, I removed the wrong cap: (What is there ... it seems like nothing is there?)
Obviously the other cap is the Schrader valve location where the tank seems to be covered in some kind of "varnish" as it's clear blue beneath it:
Bladder pressure charge seems to be at 18 psi, which is well below the original precharge of 38 psi (if that 39 psi is accurate):
To run the next test, I closed the normally-closed bypass water valve and re-opened the two normally open water valves.
I then turned the circuit breaker on and the pump ran for about three minutes where the contacts clearly cut off in this position automatically:
At that "full" point, my bladder gauge was pegged at above 60PSI:
Thank you for noticing the blackened blue wires. It may have overheated at some point as they do appear to be blackened a bit but the tinned copper seems clean where it can be seen.
The side view shows that the two outside connections are the input (black) power while the two inside connections (blue) are the output to the motor.
I tested them all this morning and everything is as would be expected, so, what I'm seeking now, is to re-create the conditions that cause the intermittency, as there is no problem until that shows up (although the bladder read 18 psi this morning (after the power to the booster was off all night) which is 20 psi lower than I had expected. 18 psi tank
After I turned the power back on, bladder pressure rose to above 60 psi
You really don't seem to observe very much for all the looking you describe... :(
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The nut is welded onto the tank to screw in a hook eye to move it with...
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And you should recharge it (when it is as empty as you can possibly get it) to -2 psi from the pressure switch cutoff pressure. Leaving it so low cam lead to premature failure of the diaphragm from over-flexing.
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That's suggestive that the overall system is still actually operating at the nominal 60-40 setpoint range, not something approaching 70-75 psi.
I don't trust that old gauge much; you need to get a wider range gauge to read the pressure in the pressure tank accurately in order to know where your pressure switch setpoint is and to precharge it correctly for the operating pressure.
I'd take the other gauge out to check it actually does zero...where the
50+ psi came from with the pressure tank empty and showing
I agree with you. It's obvious to all that how the system works was a mystery to me. And, it's just as obvious that it's only slowing dawning on me what all the pieces are and what they do (and where they should be).
Ah. I see. It would make sense. Thanks for that input as to what that top nut was for.
I'm confused by that advice - which isn't to say it's wrong - I just don't know yet what the "cutoff pressure" is set to.
I can see that the water storage tanks alone seem to be supplying about 55 psi according to the gauge at the front of the booster pump, if that reading is correct.
One anomaly I just realized exists is that when the bladder read 18 psi, the gauge at the pump read around 55 to 60 psi, which shouldn't be, right?
Shouldn't both the bladder and pump gauge read the same pressure?
NOTE: Since I have a 220VAC compressor on wheels, I can remove its gauge and swap it with the gauge on the booster pump motor to ensure that the readings on the gauge are accurate.
I agree that, yesterday, it was higher than today, with the only difference that could be appreciable being that the temperature in the morning is a good 20 degrees cooler than in the later afternoon.
I can check the gauge pressure later today - where I think I should just replace that gauge on the booster pump to ensure that it's reading correctly, since the bladder read 18psi clearly (multiple tests) while the booster pump gauge read 55 psi at the same time.
I agree on both counts that I need a better gauge (my tire gauge stops at
60psi which is about 10 or 20 psi too low).
I have a 220VAC air compressor and lots of fittings so I can dig up another gauge I think. Replacing the old gauge on the pump motor will go a long way toward allowing us to trust the readings.
I didn't think about the well pump - good catch - it could have been on as I didn't shut its breaker off. I should have.
But I agree inherently with you that I need to replace that old pump gauge just so I can be sure to trust it. I'll work on that today if I can dig up a gauge; otherwise, I'll buy one.
I was expecting 38 psi in the bladder since that's the precharge pressure. I only got 18 psi.
Funny thing, the pump motor gauge read 55 psi when the bladder read 18 psi. I will replace that pump motor gauge as soon as I can.
I am embarrassed to admit that the irrigation system has leaks in it, so, I'm sure water was used overnight.
The faucets were all closed. But, the irrigation system has a couple of leaks.
To be clear, I left the power off on purpose so that I could run that test this morning. So it did what I expected.
The only thing unexpected was that the bladder is 18 psi; not 38 psi but I probably need to make sure I *isolate* the bladder from the storage tanks (which can give it a few PSI perhaps?).
Would you also still expect 32 psi in a car tire that had been sitting unattended for 30 yr or so (or however long it's been since the air pressure in the pressure tank was last checked/aired up to proper pressure)?????
It's no different, it'll leak a tiny amount past the Schroeder plus there's diffusion thru the bladder/diaphragm so in has to be recharged every so often as routine maintenance.
It should be set to the cutin (I may have inadvertently written "cutout" above) pressure -2 psi; what needs be determined is just where the pressure switch is actually operating.
As noted in the previous response, this makes it look very much like it's actually still at 40-60 nominal, _not_ some 10-15 psi higher.
If you have compressor with regulator on it's output you can test the switch or, more simply, with a _KNOWN WORKING AND ACCURATE GAUGE OF SUFFICIENT CAPACITY_, observe the operating pressure when the pump kicks on and off.
As for the last comment, no, I'd not isolate anything; you want it as it normally operates, not some biased condition that isn't normal. There's not enough there to really matter much, but you may as well be reasonably close to where it actually operates most of the time...of course, do the reservoir tanks "live" in a mostly topped-off condition or on the bottom end? I guess the float must be towards the top if not at the overflow outlet so if you have sufficient water to ever get there...
It is wrong--I inadvertently wrote "cutoff" instead of "cut-in" so to set the record straight even though made the correct answer farther down and not to have the mistype stand uncorrected...
That's why the "preset" is 38 psi; normal operating ranges and that for which most pressure switches come preset is 40-60 and 38 is 40-2 (doh! :) )
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That simply isn't physically possible given the arrangement you've outlined; there can be only 5 or so psi of static head from a 10-ft tall tank sitting at the same elevation.
Either the gauge won't zero or as noted elsewhere, the well pump was running but that pressure can NOT be real otherwise unless there's some other external source backfeeding the system.
Even if the submersible pump was running, the water pressure at the storage tank is still determined by the water height and would be the same with the pump on or off. It might be a few pounds higher with the pump on, depending on how it's plumbed.
ut that pressure can NOT be real otherwise unless there's some
Al there is a Johnstone, a W.W. Grainger and a half dozen independent industrial supply houses where me and the guys would go to get the repair parts needed for various pumps and motors. The electrical supply houses also carried various motors and pumps or the parts were a phone call away. I kind of miss working. o_O
IDK the Birmingham area but Graingers has closed most of their branch's around me. One now has to go to the major city to overpay and get no service.
The latter is what wasn't sure of...depending on just how it is plumbed and how he had some of those isolation valves configured wasn't positive there isn't a way to end up backfeeding the jet pump so it might possibly show (most of) the submersible outlet pressure there...that's assuming that it is connected here and doesn't feed only directly to the storage tanks totally independetly; I was presuming they'd want a direct path available as well if for some reason there were an issue from the storage tanks wouldn't be totally without as long as could run the submersible...wasn't enough in the overall in pictures I've seen to know that for sure (but I've not looked at anything approaching all that have been posted, either... :) )
Your pdf viewer will have +/- buttons on it somewhere to change magnification factor...
The "C" suffix indicates the face dimensions; I didn't really look at the specific chart, there's a note at the top to "Contact your local Baldor office for "C" Dimensions"; there's a partial listing at the bottom...
Gargle is your friend; turns out Grainger has link to a more complete chart, again "C" data is at the bottom...
It tickles me that someone so well educated is ignorant about basic stuff like this. Ignorant isn't meant as an insult. He'd lose me in about two sentences explaining solid state whatevers. Chinese proverb: ?He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever?
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