Was I overcharged?

[Anthony]

Recently, I had a tile backsplash done in my kitchen. It required approx. 30 sq ft of coverage of 4 x 4'' tiles.. The guy had to remove my old Formica backsplash, and then installed cement drywall. In this process he also hard wired a new kitchen hood from an old outlet that was at the bottom base behind the range. Originally, he was going to make a hole in my cabinet above the stove so he can exhaust thru an opening he would have to make to the outside wall. He asked for $2000 for the job. I thought first that was kind of high, but thought well there is some labor in making that opening to the outside brick wall. IN the process, the purchased hood could only allow a 7" hole and he said its not possible because of the size of the cabinet and etc..he was planning on a 4'' hole at the max. so that part was not done. He did a beautiful job otherwise, and very pleased with the outcome, so i did not want to rock the boat..although i made a comment that it was kind of high and he said that labor has increased these days in the contracting business...BTW, we are talking about NYC, if that should make a difference. I do not know what the going rates are for such a job. He spent 8 hours of work the final day and 4hrs or so the previous day for the removal of the Formica and put up the cement drywall. Would appreciate an honest opinion from other contractors who do such work...not another owner who may have used an unlicensed handyman, and obviously got it done for a lot less. This one was a licensed one. Thanks

[clare]

Well, IF the man works for $65 per hour (that would sound reasonable for NYC), 12 hours of LABOUR is $780 - add to that the backer board, tile, adhesive, grout, wiring supplies etc, I'd say the price was , at the very least, fair.

[Anthony]

Not sure if your saying that he bought the backer board,tile,adhesive, ( he did not use grout ) wiring supplies etc? I purchased all those items. to the tune of $1000 approx, which also included a $325 kitchen hood.

[RBM]

Prices in the downstate NY area are going to be in the $100 per hr range. If he gave you a price that included work that ultimately wasn't done, his bill should be less than the quoted price. Unless there were other things done, that hadn't been included

[Sonny]

One aspect you didn't include in your figures is the time he spent, away from your house, to think of the design and game plan of attack. One can't just show up and do a job with no plans specific to your house, though his forethought about the vent opening may have had to be altered. In remodeling, there are almost always unexpected issues, as the vent issue, that arise.

I agree, that sounds like reasonably priced work. If the work is excellent, you might keep his number handy, for future work. It's not always easy to find a good craftsman/expert.

Sonny

[Ed Pawlowski]

"Anthony" wrote

Makes a huge difference.

I do not know what the going rates are for such a

12 hours on the job correlates to about 16 hours total. Who paid for the dumping of the waste? It has been a while since I've done that kind of work, but at today's rates, I'd be about $1200 + material and expenses, such as dumping. This is outside of NY in a more rural setting. In the city, it is probably fair.

Considering that he did not make the 7" hole, he should have knocked something off, unless he did some other extra work.

[Mikepier]

I don't understand .If the range hood requires a 7" round duct, and he put in only a 4" duct, it sounds as if he did something wrong. What kind of range hood do you have? And what are the specs of the hood?

[clare]

Then he must be charging more like $166 per hour - which is a bit over the top even for NYC, I would think.

[clare]

I'd supect it was a "convertible" hood and he installed it ventless.

[Mikepier]

Sorry I misread the original post. The contractor never drilled a hole.

[RBM]

Couple of things to consider: One would be the considerable amount of work cutting a 7" hole in the brick and running the ducting. I do kitchens all the time, and I've never seen a 4" duct on a range hood. Second, and not a biggy. He installed the wiring from an outlet behind the range for the hood. The outlet behind the range can be tapped from the counter outlet circuit, as per Nec, however the range hood cannot. NYC also requires someone with an electrical license to do this work.

[Anthony]

The outlet behind the range can be tapped from the counter outlet circuit, as per Nec, however the range hood cannot. NYC also requires someone with an electrical license to do this work.

HI, could u explain in detail of your comment?...per NEC? As for the wiring, it was hard wired from an existing outlet via bx cable to my new Hood ....and he is a licensed contractor, so wouldn't that cover the electrical issue?

[Anthony]

As for others who mentioned 16 hours total of work , in my math 8 and

4, equals 12. His labor was $2000, i spent $1000 for tiles, drywall, range hood, paste and all that goes with installing tiles in a 30sq.ft area with no grouting., total $3000. The hood is a Broan Allure QS2 series 36" in length...Paid for dumping? Isn't that part of the contract..? BTW, what waste are we talking about? The Formica was placed outside my home where the sanitation depart. picked it up..free, so he had no dumping to do...also, all those extra screws and bx cable and connectors that were left over, i gave to him...i had no personal use for them.

[jamesgangnc]

Did he give you a $2k quote to start with? I'm guessing he installed the hood but configured it for recirculation instead of venting outside?

If he gave you a $2k quote and that included making a hole in the exterior wall then he probably should knock a little off. But I wouldn't expect much, a couple hundred dollars maybe.

You don't make it clear if he gave you an estimate up front?

[Nanez]

You missed the point. 12 hrs _on the job_ correlates to 16 hrs, and I think that's a bit on the low side. Surely he spent at least 2 hrs per day travel time & getting the appropriate tools in order.

[Nanez]

An electrical license must be held. I know of no place where a GC (general contractor) can do electrical work, without an electrical license. Usually, a GC subcontracts electrical work out to a _licensed electrician_. When I was a GC, my insurance would not have covered any electrical work performed for electrical.

[dpb]

...

You don't break the charges down but the 12 hours was at your site doesn't include his travel and other overhead charges--around here, even plumbers charge hourly for the truck sitting in the driveway any more.

I've no idea what even base labor rates would be in NYC, but for a skilled craftsman anywhere from $100-150/hr or so fully burdened doesn't surprise me at all.

[RicodJour]

The hours spent are irrelevant. The OP did not ask about a time and materials accounting. He's trying to reverse engineer the pricing of lump sum work after it's done. The work got done - beautifully - so it's extremely unlikely that the contractor broke in and did the work while the OP was away. The OP agreed to the price that he thought was a little bit high, and now that the work is done, he's trying to squeeze the contractor. I am not convinced that the OP has enough wherewithal in the home improvement experience bank to make a determination of what constitutes 'beautiful' work, but that's another issue.

As far as NYC pricing, I had a buddy that had a wood closet door installed in an existing metal jamb, and he provided the hardware. The contractor picked up a used door and installed it in a morning and charged $900. He paid it, and I think he was nuts, but people charge what they can get.

The OP's post starts off with a misleading subject line - "Was I overcharged?" No. No he wasn't overcharged. There's no set price for what was done. The OP got a number from a contractor, gave the go ahead (admittedly with some reservations), and the work was done beautifully. What's his beef? That the contractor didn't stretch it out to three or four days to make it seem like he was getting his money's worth? Sheesh. If the OP wants a Buyer's Protection policy, he should try eBay.

R

[RicodJour]

Yes, that is absolutely true. I am not fond of electrical. I've done a small amount myself, but my skills lie in other areas, so I use the same couple or three electricians that I've been using for 25 years. In the "real" world, handymen do electrical work all of the time, and, yes, they are not supposed to do it. To hazard a conservative guess, I'd say that at least half of the handyman out there would have absolutely no qualms about adding an outlet or wiring a ceiling fan.

In the OP's situation, if the contractor had hired an electrician, how much do you think would have been tacked on to the $2000 bill? I'd guess three hundred as an absolute minimum, and an extra day (or week?) added to the schedule until the electrician finally gets around to taking care of the huge single outlet retirement project. ;)

R

[Anthony]

Well, that $2000 labor included the electrical connection cause i asked him to do it. He did use bx cable which i believe was the right way of doing it. A handy man might of done it too, but without a bx cable.