OT: Roundabout and 4way stop confusion

Not necessarily. Ours were imported by a yank engineer.

Reply to
Rod Speed
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Its not possible to replace all the lights with roundabout, particularly in the built up areas where the building line all the roads at the intersections. And no one has just roundabouts in a city as big as that, it isnt even possible.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Yeah, that's very similar to our biggest roundabout, designed by that yank. Tho our courthouse is not on that roundabout, only the council building, the TAFE, a technical secondary education school and the community theatre. The courthouse is on the big divided main street that runs off that.

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Reply to
Rod Speed

If you can't navigate a traffic circle, maybe it's time to surrender your car keys.

Reply to
Bob

you talking about Rt202 in Flemmington?

mark

Reply to
makolber

You're on a highway in one of the two northbound lanes. You come to a traffic circle where it intersects a crossroad and you want to take that road in the left direction. The highway traffic is flowing, you get into the circle, you go to the left and now you're STUCK because southbound traffic is continuous and does not yield. That little section of circle holds two cars in each lane, four total, and there they sit, until eventually there is a pause in southbound traffic so they can get across. That's how it works here. And if other cars want to go left, they then either stop in the circle blocking north bound traffic or they give up and drive on north.

Reply to
trader_4

Boise City started out as the traditional courthouse square, of course. I don't know when it was converted to the roundabout format; as long as I can remember it's been that way which only goes back 50-60 yr or so...

The major junction traffic has now mostly been bypassed by the (relatively) new intersection east of town but was the junction/crossing between US-56 from Kansas City to Santa Fe via Springer and US-287 between Amarillo and Denver so had a lot of truck traffic that had trouble with the original square corners and city-wide 2-way streets...

Reply to
dpb

There is no one in your way when you enter the circle. Traffic is flowing along at 40 mph, 95% of the traffic is staying on the highway going right through it. And as I already pointed out, the only law in NJ that governs traffic circles is that local custom governs who has the right of way. So, you come along, northbound, traffic is flowing, you go into the circle, wanting to make a left onto the smaller crossroad. You get part way around and if there is heavy southbound traffic, you're now stuck there in the circle until eventually there is a pause. There is enough room for 4 cars in the two lanes, until that portion of the circle is full. If anyone else wants to go left, they have two choices:

stop where they will now block the northbound traffic give up on turning left and go straight

That is exactly what happens here.

Reply to
trader_4

That is nonsense. The southbound traffic has to give way to you as you're already on the roundabout.

Reply to
Steven Watkins

You must yield when entering the circle. So the southbound traffic must wait for you. Duh.

Reply to
Steven Watkins

As I keep pointing out to you, THAT IS NOT THE LAW HERE. Why do you try to apply UK laws to the US, where there are 50 states and where traffic laws vary even from state to state? And it would not work well on busy highways, where most of the traffic is flowing straight through the circle.

Reply to
trader_4

One more time, dopey, that is NOT THE LAW HERE.

Reply to
trader_4

That's not how it works in NJ.

Reply to
Rod Speed

That's not how it works in NJ.

That's not how it works in NJ.

Reply to
Rod Speed

I see the NJ problem now, after reading this (and other) web articles. NJ treats Circles and Roundabouts as 2 different things with conflicting "rules".

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"What is a New Jersey Roundabout?

A roundabout is a type of circular junction in which road traffic must travel in one direction around a central island. *Signs usually direct traffic entering the circle to slow down and give the right of way to drivers already in the circle*"

"Characteristics of traffic circles

The term ?traffic circle? is used to describe circular intersections that have the following characteristics

Often, circulating traffic yields to entering traffic at one or more approach points. The New Jersey Driver?s Manual advises drivers to yield to cars on the right *(thus the circulating traffic would yield to entering traffic)*."

How does is someone new to area supposed to know the difference ?

Reply to
""Retired"

Yeah, completely stupid way to do things but I can see why they do it like that when it?s a major highway going thru the traffic circle, to minimise the disruption to the major highway traffic.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Interesting that the State is eliminating "Circles" as fast as money is available.

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"Over the last several years, the Department of Transportation has been on a mission to eliminate circles statewide, as resources become available, said Erin Phalon, a spokeswoman for the department. Where once there were 44 traffic circles on state roads (and 25 to 30 on county and local roads), now there are just 25 circles on state roads, and several of them are slated for elimination."

Reply to
""Retired"

roundabout-accidents/

tersections

I bet if you find this reference in the NJ Driver's Manual, the part about yielding to cars on the right, it's in the section about uncontrolled intersections, not about a traffic circle. You could argue that a traffic circle is an uncontrolled circle, but I don't know anyone here that views them as such or applies that rule.

Further, here's a good read on NJ and what the driver's manual does say about circles:

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I wasn?t sure. So I looked up the New Jersey Driver?s Manua l (which is what I should have done with Massachusetts? last week). To put it in the kindest terms possible, it seems anything but clear on th e subject. The section on traffic circles begins with this:

?There are no set rules driving into, around and out of a traffic c ircle in New Jersey. Common sense and caution must prevail at all times.? ??

That?s not exactly helpful, right? The manual continues:

?In most cases, the circle?s historically established traff ic flow pattern dictates who has the right of way.?

That?s not helpful either ? it suggests the right of way va ries depending on the circle. But there is more.

?Never enter a traffic circle without checking all signs and determ ining the intentions of the motorists already moving in the circle.? ?

In that passage, there?s at least a weak implication that drivers i n the circle have the right of way, correct? But it also sounds like there ?s also a bit of mind-reading involved in the question.

To confuse the matter even further, the section in the New Jersey Driver? ??s Manual concludes with this:

?Whenever a motorist is in doubt concerning who has the right-of-wa y in a circle, he/she should exercise extreme caution and remember the basi c rule governing any uncontrolled intersection: The vehicle to the left yie lds the right-of-way to the vehicle approaching to the right.?

So, there you have it. And here at the circle I was talking about, the las t think is pretty much what goes on. Cars going north that enter intending t o essentially make a left onto the smaller road, enter the circle, start moving to the left and then get stuck in the top of the circle, waiting for the heavy southbound traffic to have a break so they can continue across. They are following that last part above. Actually, I'm not sure it's even fair to say they are following that. The traffic is right there, moving 40 MPH through the circle, continuous. Wouldn't you stop? I guess you could say it's that southbound traffic that keeps right on going that's made the decision and they could be following that last rule above. Or they are just following the car ahead, are piggies and keep going.

Very good question. I'd like to see someone get a ticket in a circle and what would happen if they fought it in court. IMO, that's one big hot mess, especially the part about following the local custom. I'd like to see the prosecutor prove what the local custom is and that the driver with the ticket should know what it was. If they are from out of the area, for sure forget about it.

Reply to
trader_4

Not surprising given the problem that Trader 4 commented on.

Reply to
Rod Speed

The only other option would be "yield to traffic entering the roundabout" which would make a mess of congestion and be totally illogical.

Reply to
Steven Watkins

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