In a statement issued to CNN through her spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, t
he first lady said she “hates to see children separated from their
families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to ach
ieve successful immigration reform.” saying that while ?
?she believes we need to be a country that follows all laws,” we
should also be “a country that governs with heart.”
Dear Leader wants all Americans to sit up and follow his orders, and
now Melania is saying this? Time for a twitter attack! Game on!
Note that immigration reform isn't going to solve the problem of children
being separated. As long as people choose to enter here illegally with
children or otherwise break immigration law and get caught, that isn't
going to be completely fixed. But a reasonable solution to DACA would
stop separating families and harming children for no reason at all.
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 12:32:03 AM UTC-4, ChairMan wrote:
This is an interesting example of how trumpets get their news. Look at
the source. Who the hell is David Harris? And all he does is reference
the Huffington Post, where there are some quotes from the Congressman,
but not one says that's claimed. The Congressman did not say his party
is lying. All he said was that there were also a lot of children detained
separately some years ago during the Obama administration because they
arrived here ALONE. That was when Obama was doing his DACA orders and
word got back that if you could get in here, you could stay, so they
came. It definitely has validity, that children have been detained
alone in large numbers before, but it sure doesn't say what the link
would imply. There is no lying or admission to lying there.
So a cover up about the same thing being done under Obama
You do realise the law was enacted under Clinton in 97,
right? Nobody whined about it when they both did the same
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 6:11:17 PM UTC-4, ChairMan wrote:
What law? Show us a cite for this alleged law that requires children to be
separated. Everyone credible that I've heard says there is no law that requ
ires separation, that it's entirely a Trump administration change to policy
and procedures. Trump is the main source of trying to blame Democrats, but
he's a congenital liar.
And again, I don't necessarily have a problem with them doing it, but I do
have a problem with them lying about why. Also Trump is obviously lying abo
ut immigration reform solving it, because unless reform is going to include
dramatically increasing the numbers from Central America or making it unli
mited, then illegals are still going to show up at the border. And we know
Trump wants to lower immigration, not increase it.
How bout you show *me* where Trump changed it. I showed you where Cuellar(D)
said it happened under Obama and kept it quiet. Also the picture with the
time stamp from 2014 showing children locked in cages. The same *photo* they
are using today and blaming Trump for. Explain to me how he can be
responsible for a photo taken 4 years ago?
from my cite
"Cuellar added that the number of children being held at the border right
now is similar to the amount during the Obama administration.
"We still see the numbers," he said, adding that "not all of them are being
separated. Some of them are coming alone."
"Keep in mind that under the law, you can separate a child if that person,
the adult, is not the real parent or the custodian because sometimes we see
situations where they'll bring a child because they know of the policy that
we have over here with children."
Cuellar scrutinized the zero-tolerance policy for separation, suggesting
criminal adult immigrants have previously taken advantage of it.
Rep Cuellar said that the Obama administration and Democrats in congress
tried to hush up what was happening at the border and that many of the
damning pictures taken at the detention camps were taken and released by
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 9:52:41 PM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org ChairMan wrote
I take that to mean you have no law to cite to back up what you just claime
d about Clinton and 1997 and a problem with the English language. What is t
he "it" that happened? Again, what you cited was not children being separa
ted from their parents by the govt under the Obama administration. Those we
re children that arrived here without parents.
Also the picture with the
Because those children were not separated from their parents by the govt. T
rump and Sessions just started doing that a few weeks ago. Good grief, Sess
ions even held a press conference to announce the change in policy. Even if
you get your news from Sessions, he was very clear about the new policy, t
hat he changed it and why.
Yes, held, but not separated from their parents by the govt.
Again, good grief, the govt is separating All of them, not just some where
there is some question about who the real parents are.
Do you even realize that you are quoting Harris, whoever that wingnut with
his agenda is, not the congressman? He's trying to put words into the cong
ressman's mouth that Afaik, he never said.
Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act
Again, what you cited was
Please watch the video again and really pay attention to
what Cuellar says, especially around the 1:30 mark where he
references they can be separated if there is a criminal
offence ie; illegal entry to the country. DUH
Do you have inside knowledge that they weren't? Why did they
keep it quiet then? Cuellar said *he* realeased those
pictures because of that
>> "Keep in mind that under the law, you can separate a
child if that
Because of the CRIMINAL OFFENSE, DUH!!!!
He *did* say " many of the damning pictures taken at the
detention camps were taken
and released by him."
watch the video AGAIN
Also to quote YOU
"Obviously you do like to be jerked around in a scam. The
you libs want open borders where anyone can just walk right
You put their rights over the rights of American citizens.
didn't even stop with sanctuary cities, they now have
where they welcome illegal aliens in, encouraging more.
Kids dying in
the desert, bad things happening, look in the mirror, it's
that are encouraging it, encouraging them to break the laws.
*Trump has this right, enough is enough and it's time to
law.* And I suspect that before long he's going to address
state BS too. I'd figure out a way to cut off federal
states that want to ignore the federal govt. That's a lib
idea by the
way. Libs like big federal govt to set the rules, then if
don't dance to the right tune, what do they do? Cut off
So what, you want it both ways? Is Trump right to stop this
or is he wrong?
Please make up your mind.
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 2:26:47 AM UTC-4, ChairMan wrote:
I don't see where that law changed anything that applies to the current
situation. It was a crime to enter illegally for decades before that.
That is the crime, the law, that Sessions new zero tolerance enforcement
approach is using. If you can show us anything specific in the 1996 act
that applies here, I'd be happy to look at it. That law toughened up
other aspects of immigration law, but I have yet to see where it did
anything with regard to illegal entry being a crime. It already was
and it remained so, it still remains so. Again, what is difference is
that now Trump/Sessions announced a new zero tolerance policy whereby
everyone who enters illegally, must be prosecuted.
*Can be separated*, does not mean *must be*. Sessions/Trump just changed
that to *must be*, which is what precipitated the order of magnitude
increase in children being held without their parents.
No inside information is required. Do you watch the news at all? Sessions
has been all over the news, defending his new policy. So too have other
administration officials. They aren't saying, nothing changed, nothing is
new. Sessions said he's ordered a new zero tolerance policy, this is the
resulting fallout. When illegals are simply being detained by immigration,
children do not have to be separated. Once they go into the federal crimin
system, they do.
Why did they
IDK who the "they" is. Back in the OBama days there were pictures all
over the media of huge numbers of children arriving illegally without
parents. And Obama was not separating most families because he was not
criminally prosecuting most of them. Sessions/Trump just changed that.
Are you trumpets all so deceptive, while playing dumb? Are you really
here telling us that Obama was going after illegals that crossed the
border by prosecuting every one criminally? We all know that you were
bitching at the time about how Obama wasn't enforcing the law. Now
you actually have the balls to try to claim that he was, that Obama
had a zero tolerance policy like Trump? Even Trump didn't have it
until a month ago. Here:
Between October 1, 2017 and May 31, 2018, at least 2,700 children have been
split from their parents. 1,995 of them were separated over the last six w
eeks of that window — April 18 to May 31
So, in approximately 7 months, there were about 700 children separated.
Then about a month ago, it went to 2,000 in just six weeks. There is
your duh! It's when Trump/Sessions started moving to their new zero
tolerance policy, which created the news, created the headlines. Then
you try to pretend the same thing has really been going on since 1996,
or since Obama, or whatever, implying that the media is somehow just
making this all up, being unfair to Trump, etc. Good grief.
I clearly stated my position and there is no contradiction. I just
object to spinners like you, trying to lie and deflect. If Trump
and you trumpets have such big balls, why don't you just
tell the truth? Say, "we just instituted this zero tolerance policy,
we know it's increased child separations twenty fold, we don't care".
Instead, you pretend like nothing has changed, Obama did the same thing,
etc. And Trump tries to say the Democrats did it, which is another one
of his outrageous lies. Why do you like liars?
Also, I said before, AFAIK and until you show otherwise, I don't think
the 1996 act is the enabling act. AFAIK, that did not change the fact
that illegal entry is a crime. That is the aspect that is being used
now that is resulting in the separations. It's an issue of executive
discretion by the president as to enforcement that has changed and
TRUMP changed it. Also since you want to point to the 1996 Act, even
that is not a Democrat thing. It was driven by Republicans who wanted
to get tough on immigration and it had huge bipartisan support, it
passed the House 370 to 37, passed the Senate by a voice vote. So,
it's just another shyster lie for Trump to try to blame the Democrats for
what he himself just did. Polls show two thirds of Americans don't
support Trump's immigration policy now. That's some achievement and I
wonder how it will play out for conservatives in November? I told you
when Trump was running in the primary that he would destroy the GOP
and conservatism, possibly forever. You're watching it unfold.
This leads to a talk show, Armstrong & Getty. Their guest was
judge for 8 years. He mentions a couple laws and says they were passed
by Democrats So, for what it's worth:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 6:58:18 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
be separated. Everyone credible that I've heard says there is no law that
requires separation, that it's entirely a Trump administration change to po
licy and procedures. Trump is the main source of trying to blame Democrats,
but he's a congenital liar.
I couldn't get it to play, it complains about my ad blocker, even though I
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 7:25:34 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
to be separated. Everyone credible that I've heard says there is no law tha
t requires separation, that it's entirely a Trump administration change to
policy and procedures. Trump is the main source of trying to blame Democrat
s, but he's a congenital liar.
h I disabled it.
Actually I did get the other link to work, thank you. What the former
judge is saying sounds reasonable and factual. The bottom line is that Tru
mp/Sessions have gone to a
hard-line, zero tolerance policy that has increased the child separations
by twenty fold or more. I haven't heard anyone really disagree that Trump
is following the law. It's just that all his predecessors used their power
to prioritize how to enforce the laws, which power the president has,
so they didn't prosecute, which avoided the separation. Sessions/Trump
changed that abruptly and separations are sky rocketing. He cites laws
written in 2002 and 2008 that apply to what happens in that process.
While like you said, he mentions Democrats in both cases, Bush was
the president at thetime, so again, it's not party specific.
We'll see how this sorts out, what Trump does, what the Congress does.
It's certainly causing him tremendous damage in optics, that's for sure.
But then Trump is notoriously tone deaf, so who knows. I sure don't
see it helping to reach some agreement in Congress, do you?
On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 6:11:17 PM UTC-4, ChairMan wrote:
One more time, the same thing was not being done during the Obama
administration and no one is "covering it up". When Obama was doing
his DACA exec order, it lead to a large number of children coming
illegally *by themselves*. I remember seeing it on the news at the
time, there were videos of mostly kids riding on the top of trains
across Mexico to the US border. So, sure they were detained and held.
But they were not separated from their families by the US govt, they
were separated by their own choice. So, there is nothing being
Prior to a month ago, there was also some number of kids that either
showed up without parents or that had to be separated for some reason
from their parent, because for example the parent was a known violent
felon. But what changed was Sessions announced a new zero tolerance
policy, whereby *ALL* people who enter illegally must be prosecuted.
It's that latter part, that everyone must now be criminally prosecuted
that leads directly to the separation, because kids can't go with their
parents into the criminal processing, jailing system.
Again, they were not doing the same thing. And unless you can show
us otherwise, I don't see that the law change which was actually 1996
is the driving factor here. AFAIK, illegal entry could always be
prosecuted if the govt chose to do so. It's just that previous
administrations going back at least until the 60s, maybe forever,
chose not to prosecute the majority of them. I really don't know
why you chose to get your news from some hack on the internet, instead
of watching and listening to the real news.
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