OT: Oh no, first Justin, Trudeau, now this?

In a statement issued to CNN through her spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham, t he first lady said she “hates to see children separated from their families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to ach ieve successful immigration reform.” saying that while ? ?she believes we need to be a country that follows all laws,” we should also be “a country that governs with heart.”
Dear Leader wants all Americans to sit up and follow his orders, and now Melania is saying this? Time for a twitter attack! Game on!
Note that immigration reform isn't going to solve the problem of children being separated. As long as people choose to enter here illegally with children or otherwise break immigration law and get caught, that isn't going to be completely fixed. But a reasonable solution to DACA would stop separating families and harming children for no reason at all.
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https://www.davidharrisjr.com/politics/democrat-admits-his-party-is-lying-on-immigration-flap/
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On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 12:32:03 AM UTC-4, ChairMan wrote:

This is an interesting example of how trumpets get their news. Look at the source. Who the hell is David Harris? And all he does is reference the Huffington Post, where there are some quotes from the Congressman, but not one says that's claimed. The Congressman did not say his party is lying. All he said was that there were also a lot of children detained separately some years ago during the Obama administration because they arrived here ALONE. That was when Obama was doing his DACA orders and word got back that if you could get in here, you could stay, so they came. It definitely has validity, that children have been detained alone in large numbers before, but it sure doesn't say what the link would imply. There is no lying or admission to lying there.
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So a cover up about the same thing being done under Obama isn''t lying...okay<smfh> You do realise the law was enacted under Clinton in 97, right? Nobody whined about it when they both did the same thing.
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On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 6:11:17 PM UTC-4, ChairMan wrote:

ing-on-immigration-flap/

What law? Show us a cite for this alleged law that requires children to be separated. Everyone credible that I've heard says there is no law that requ ires separation, that it's entirely a Trump administration change to policy and procedures. Trump is the main source of trying to blame Democrats, but he's a congenital liar.
And again, I don't necessarily have a problem with them doing it, but I do have a problem with them lying about why. Also Trump is obviously lying abo ut immigration reform solving it, because unless reform is going to include dramatically increasing the numbers from Central America or making it unli mited, then illegals are still going to show up at the border. And we know Trump wants to lower immigration, not increase it.
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trader_4 wrote:

How bout you show *me* where Trump changed it. I showed you where Cuellar(D) said it happened under Obama and kept it quiet. Also the picture with the time stamp from 2014 showing children locked in cages. The same *photo* they are using today and blaming Trump for. Explain to me how he can be responsible for a photo taken 4 years ago?
from my cite "Cuellar added that the number of children being held at the border right now is similar to the amount during the Obama administration.
"We still see the numbers," he said, adding that "not all of them are being separated. Some of them are coming alone."
"Keep in mind that under the law, you can separate a child if that person, the adult, is not the real parent or the custodian because sometimes we see situations where they'll bring a child because they know of the policy that we have over here with children."
Cuellar scrutinized the zero-tolerance policy for separation, suggesting criminal adult immigrants have previously taken advantage of it.
Rep Cuellar said that the Obama administration and Democrats in congress tried to hush up what was happening at the border and that many of the damning pictures taken at the detention camps were taken and released by him."
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On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 9:52:41 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@thnks.com ChairMan wrote :

lying-on-immigration-flap/

(D)

I take that to mean you have no law to cite to back up what you just claime d about Clinton and 1997 and a problem with the English language. What is t he "it" that happened? Again, what you cited was not children being separa ted from their parents by the govt under the Obama administration. Those we re children that arrived here without parents.
Also the picture with the

hey

Because those children were not separated from their parents by the govt. T rump and Sessions just started doing that a few weeks ago. Good grief, Sess ions even held a press conference to announce the change in policy. Even if you get your news from Sessions, he was very clear about the new policy, t hat he changed it and why.

t

Yes, held, but not separated from their parents by the govt.

ng

,

ee

at

Again, good grief, the govt is separating All of them, not just some where there is some question about who the real parents are.

Do you even realize that you are quoting Harris, whoever that wingnut with his agenda is, not the congressman? He's trying to put words into the cong ressman's mouth that Afaik, he never said.
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On 6/18/2018 10:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:

Sessions is a bible thumping, holier than though, kind of guy. I trust him less than Trump.
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Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...

I don't like him either. He doesn't seem to know how to fix the problems of the DOJ. Just as aside - excuse me for this - he looks like a weasel...
--
Tekkie

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Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act in 1996
Again, what you cited was

Please watch the video again and really pay attention to what Cuellar says, especially around the 1:30 mark where he references they can be separated if there is a criminal offence ie; illegal entry to the country. DUH

Do you have inside knowledge that they weren't? Why did they keep it quiet then? Cuellar said *he* realeased those pictures because of that

>> "Keep in mind that under the law, you can separate a child if that

Because of the CRIMINAL OFFENSE, DUH!!!!

He *did* say " many of the damning pictures taken at the detention camps were taken and released by him."
watch the video AGAIN
Also to quote YOU "Obviously you do like to be jerked around in a scam. The truth is, you libs want open borders where anyone can just walk right on in. You put their rights over the rights of American citizens. The Democrats didn't even stop with sanctuary cities, they now have sanctuary states, where they welcome illegal aliens in, encouraging more. Kids dying in the desert, bad things happening, look in the mirror, it's you libs that are encouraging it, encouraging them to break the laws.
*Trump has this right, enough is enough and it's time to enforce the law.* And I suspect that before long he's going to address the sanctuary state BS too. I'd figure out a way to cut off federal funding for states that want to ignore the federal govt. That's a lib idea by the way. Libs like big federal govt to set the rules, then if some states don't dance to the right tune, what do they do? Cut off federal funds"
So what, you want it both ways? Is Trump right to stop this or is he wrong? Please make up your mind.
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On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 2:26:47 AM UTC-4, ChairMan wrote:

s-lying-on-immigration-flap/

I don't see where that law changed anything that applies to the current situation. It was a crime to enter illegally for decades before that. That is the crime, the law, that Sessions new zero tolerance enforcement approach is using. If you can show us anything specific in the 1996 act that applies here, I'd be happy to look at it. That law toughened up other aspects of immigration law, but I have yet to see where it did anything with regard to illegal entry being a crime. It already was and it remained so, it still remains so. Again, what is difference is that now Trump/Sessions announced a new zero tolerance policy whereby everyone who enters illegally, must be prosecuted.

*Can be separated*, does not mean *must be*. Sessions/Trump just changed that to *must be*, which is what precipitated the order of magnitude increase in children being held without their parents.

No inside information is required. Do you watch the news at all? Sessions has been all over the news, defending his new policy. So too have other administration officials. They aren't saying, nothing changed, nothing is new. Sessions said he's ordered a new zero tolerance policy, this is the resulting fallout. When illegals are simply being detained by immigration, children do not have to be separated. Once they go into the federal crimin al system, they do.
Why did they

IDK who the "they" is. Back in the OBama days there were pictures all over the media of huge numbers of children arriving illegally without parents. And Obama was not separating most families because he was not criminally prosecuting most of them. Sessions/Trump just changed that.

Are you trumpets all so deceptive, while playing dumb? Are you really here telling us that Obama was going after illegals that crossed the border by prosecuting every one criminally? We all know that you were bitching at the time about how Obama wasn't enforcing the law. Now you actually have the balls to try to claim that he was, that Obama had a zero tolerance policy like Trump? Even Trump didn't have it until a month ago. Here:
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separate d-parents
Between October 1, 2017 and May 31, 2018, at least 2,700 children have been split from their parents. 1,995 of them were separated over the last six w eeks of that window — April 18 to May 31
So, in approximately 7 months, there were about 700 children separated. Then about a month ago, it went to 2,000 in just six weeks. There is your duh! It's when Trump/Sessions started moving to their new zero tolerance policy, which created the news, created the headlines. Then you try to pretend the same thing has really been going on since 1996, or since Obama, or whatever, implying that the media is somehow just making this all up, being unfair to Trump, etc. Good grief.

I clearly stated my position and there is no contradiction. I just object to spinners like you, trying to lie and deflect. If Trump and you trumpets have such big balls, why don't you just tell the truth? Say, "we just instituted this zero tolerance policy, we know it's increased child separations twenty fold, we don't care". Instead, you pretend like nothing has changed, Obama did the same thing, etc. And Trump tries to say the Democrats did it, which is another one of his outrageous lies. Why do you like liars?
Also, I said before, AFAIK and until you show otherwise, I don't think the 1996 act is the enabling act. AFAIK, that did not change the fact that illegal entry is a crime. That is the aspect that is being used now that is resulting in the separations. It's an issue of executive discretion by the president as to enforcement that has changed and TRUMP changed it. Also since you want to point to the 1996 Act, even that is not a Democrat thing. It was driven by Republicans who wanted to get tough on immigration and it had huge bipartisan support, it passed the House 370 to 37, passed the Senate by a voice vote. So, it's just another shyster lie for Trump to try to blame the Democrats for what he himself just did. Polls show two thirds of Americans don't support Trump's immigration policy now. That's some achievement and I wonder how it will play out for conservatives in November? I told you when Trump was running in the primary that he would destroy the GOP and conservatism, possibly forever. You're watching it unfold.
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On 6/18/18 5:55 PM, trader_4 wrote:

This leads to a talk show, Armstrong & Getty. Their guest was an immigration judge for 8 years. He mentions a couple laws and says they were passed by Democrats So, for what it's worth: <https://tunein.com/podcasts/Morning-Shows/Armstrong--Getty-p10154/?topicId 1922863>
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On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 6:58:18 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:

be separated. Everyone credible that I've heard says there is no law that requires separation, that it's entirely a Trump administration change to po licy and procedures. Trump is the main source of trying to blame Democrats, but he's a congenital liar.

Id1922863>
I couldn't get it to play, it complains about my ad blocker, even though I disabled it.
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On 6/19/18 6:06 AM, trader_4 wrote:

This is the one thing I use Chrome for. Listening to rock from about 40 years ago on TuneIn takes higher priority though.
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On 6/19/18 6:06 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Does this work? <https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-armstrong-and-getty-show/e/54939881
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On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 7:25:34 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:

to be separated. Everyone credible that I've heard says there is no law tha t requires separation, that it's entirely a Trump administration change to policy and procedures. Trump is the main source of trying to blame Democrat s, but he's a congenital liar.

as

d
picId1922863>

h I disabled it.

Actually I did get the other link to work, thank you. What the former judge is saying sounds reasonable and factual. The bottom line is that Tru mp/Sessions have gone to a hard-line, zero tolerance policy that has increased the child separations by twenty fold or more. I haven't heard anyone really disagree that Trump is following the law. It's just that all his predecessors used their power to prioritize how to enforce the laws, which power the president has, so they didn't prosecute, which avoided the separation. Sessions/Trump changed that abruptly and separations are sky rocketing. He cites laws written in 2002 and 2008 that apply to what happens in that process. While like you said, he mentions Democrats in both cases, Bush was the president at thetime, so again, it's not party specific.
We'll see how this sorts out, what Trump does, what the Congress does. It's certainly causing him tremendous damage in optics, that's for sure. But then Trump is notoriously tone deaf, so who knows. I sure don't see it helping to reach some agreement in Congress, do you?
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On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 6:11:17 PM UTC-4, ChairMan wrote:

One more time, the same thing was not being done during the Obama administration and no one is "covering it up". When Obama was doing his DACA exec order, it lead to a large number of children coming illegally *by themselves*. I remember seeing it on the news at the time, there were videos of mostly kids riding on the top of trains across Mexico to the US border. So, sure they were detained and held. But they were not separated from their families by the US govt, they were separated by their own choice. So, there is nothing being "covered-up".
Prior to a month ago, there was also some number of kids that either showed up without parents or that had to be separated for some reason from their parent, because for example the parent was a known violent felon. But what changed was Sessions announced a new zero tolerance policy, whereby *ALL* people who enter illegally must be prosecuted. It's that latter part, that everyone must now be criminally prosecuted that leads directly to the separation, because kids can't go with their parents into the criminal processing, jailing system.

Again, they were not doing the same thing. And unless you can show us otherwise, I don't see that the law change which was actually 1996 is the driving factor here. AFAIK, illegal entry could always be prosecuted if the govt chose to do so. It's just that previous administrations going back at least until the 60s, maybe forever, chose not to prosecute the majority of them. I really don't know why you chose to get your news from some hack on the internet, instead of watching and listening to the real news.
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