OT Key Bridge nonsense.

[micky]

Can't find the thread about the Key Bridge being knocked down in Baltimore, but wanted to comment on the racist pigs around the USA who claimed it had something to do with seeking diversity in who the shipping company hires. What nonsense.

In 1971, I hitchhiked to Panama and while en route I came up with the plan to get a job on a freighter going back to the USA, What a pipe dream, Even in 1971, and far more so now I'm sure, if a sailor got sick or left the crew during a trip, they didn't and don't hire someone they find where they happen to be. They fly someone in from their home country, someone they would have hired if they'd known the first guy wasn't going to finish the trip. And believe it or not, furiners know how to sail ships.

Another reasons I didnt' get such a job was that few ships make port in Panama. The vast majority just anchor off shore, do their paperwork, and traverse the canal. On the one ship I did board, I met a Japanese guy coming out of the shower with only a towel around him. The only word I knew in Japanese was Sayonara, but that sounded corny, so I left. Then a harbor cop noticed me and kicked me off the pier.

I did find someone at the yacht club who would have taken me as a crew member to California, but he was making long stops along the way, and I wanted the east coast. The yacht club only got one or two non-local yachts a day, so I settled for someone who took me from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Takes about 6 hours.

From there, I had saved $150 to buy a plane ticket home, so I didn't have to stay there.

[invalid unparseable]

micky wrote on 4/3/2024 9:46 AM:

Did you notice that the news kept mentioning the "pilot" instead of the "captain"? The captain didn't hit the Baltimore Key Bridge. The "pilot" who was working for Baltimore was steering the ship, not the captain. The pilot was hired to do just that, because the pilot knows the water channel like the back of his hand. The pilot knows where the ship should avoid so that it won't run aground.

Baltimore authorities cannot sue the captain of the ship or owner of the ship, because the "pilot" who was steering the ship worked for Baltimore.

[Ed P]

That is sort of correct. Unfortunately, the pilot was not steering the ship. He wanted to, but the rudder was not working. The pilot had no control over that situation.

I did hear on the news the investigation can take up to two years.

[Bob F]

And the lawsuits years more. I read that the ships owner and the operator have both declared that they are not responsible for any damage. Will this be fun or what?

[Bob F]

The pilot did not hit the bridge, the ship hit the bridge, after it's power systems failed. You actually think that was the pilots fault?

How would you like to have been the second pilot, who was there being trained?

[invalid unparseable]

The Baltimore's pilot was at the helm. Good luck blaming anyone else for the accident. The US will have to pick up the tab for third party liability (people hurt/killed as a result of the bridge collapse) and property damage (the bridge and the vehicles that fell into the water).

How We Steer A Cargo Ship

[Ed P]

He was at the helm, but the helm did not work. Can't pin that on him.

Nice video. Did you notice in the last minute that the engines were running and making power? The ship that hit the bridge did not have that luxury.

[rbowman]

Pilots, actually.

I haven't seen it stated explicitly but I assume they dropped the tugs at the normal point where a ship proceeds under its own power. The pilot did order the anchor to be dropped and tried to get the tugs back to no avail.

I'm no maritime lawyer but I would think the master of the ship has the responsibility of keeping the vessel in a seaworthy condition.

[invalid unparseable]

Baltimore's pilot was at the helm. He might have accidentally killed the power by pushing the wrong button.

[Ed P]

No, does not work like that. Not the same as turning off the key in your car ignition.

[Bob F]

Are you Rod Speed??? You certainly have his stupid know it all attitude.

[invalid unparseable]

rbowman wrote on 4/3/2024 9:29 PM:

The ship was definitely in seaworthy condition. It traveled here all the way from the other side of the globe. It broke at the hands of the Baltimore pilots.

Dropping the anchor was a stupid move. A ship's anchor is not like a car's brakes. The ship would keep moving forward until the anchor hit the bottom and snared some giant rocks. And then the anchor chain would be pulling the bow to one side to spin the ship around (the anchor hawseholes are at the front end of the ship). Maybe this is the reason the ship suddenly turned towards the pillar of the Key Bridge. Dropping the anchor to stop the ship when the ship was still far from the bridge might have worked, but not when the ship was so close to the support column of the bridge. Anyways, dropping the anchor will always swing a ship around.

[invalid unparseable]

The ship's power went out and came back on. Someone realized the mistake and corrected it. That's the logical explanation.

Homer Simpson was at the helm.

[invalid unparseable]

I merely put forward the best, unbiased analysis of what caused the accident.

[micky]

Might be unbiased, but definitely not the best analysis.

Other have answered pretty well but since you replied first to my post, I will take the bait.

If I were driving a Ford with 1000 miles on it, and the rack and pinion locked up so that I coudlnt' steer it, do you think I would be liable for the damages that followed or Ford would?

It's the same here. Assuming the engine could have been turned off, and that the pilot had the power to do that, and he did it, that would make the pilot and his employer liable. But you have to prove that by a preponderance of the evidence.

It could also be that the owner of the ship didn't maintain the engines properly and that caused the engines to stop. That would make the owner liable.

It could be, I hear, that the fuel they used was bad and that made the engnine and the electrical generating engines stop. That could make the vendor of the fuel liable, unless maybe he took the standard amount of care but someone else not related to the fuel vendor intentionally damaged the fuel. Or it could be the fuel wholesaler or producer made bad fuel that fouled the engines.

It could be that none of those parties were negligent but it turns out the electical generating engines fail at a certain age, and it was that old but they buyers weren't warned. The maker of the engines might have known they fail at that age and not warned the buyers, or maybe he didn't know this.

I'm sure there are other things that could have caused this.

It's not clear from afar, and it's not even clear to those on the scene, if someone was at fault and if so, who it was.

[Ed P]

Have you ever been on a ship? Ever see the power plant?

The pilot did not hit the off button.

I've been on a couple and my brother was an engineer that worked on the propulsion systems, both diesel and nuclear.

[Bob F]

Whoever made the decisions to not properly maintain the essential equipment needed to control the ships motion?

[invalid unparseable]

micky wrote on 4/3/2024 11:06 PM:

You were driving your own car. How's that relevant to the case of the Baltimore harbour pilots at the helm of a strange (or not so familiar) ship?

I think there is a black box in ships like that. I think they got the hold of the black box.

It worked fine all over the world until the Baltimore harbour pilots took over the helm. I'd blame the pilots first.

Bad fuel won't make the power go out and come back on.

This does not explain why the power went out and came back on.

Fat finger pushing the wrong button?

You keep trying to make excuses for the Baltimore harbour pilots when their human error is the most likely culprit of this disaster.

[invalid unparseable]

Your psychic power determined that?

You mean the control room of a container ship (or a warship) does not have a button to turn the power on and off? Why? Go down to the belly of the container ship (or warship) to manually throw the lever switch? What planet do you live on?

[invalid unparseable]

The container ship was fine sailing the seven seas until the Baltimore harbour pilots laid their hands on it.