OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?

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OT How old are you and how were you taught to read?
I heard a very interesting radio show tonight, and apparently the same fight about how to teach reading, that was going on at least since 1951 is still going on.
When I was 5, in 1952, (and of course they'd been debating it at the board of education for months or years before that), there was a contest between what was then called "Word recognition" and phonetics. Later these were known as whole word and phonics, and probably other names too.
Word recognition won, by the time I started first grade, but our first grade teacher, Miss Maxwell was 64 and entering her last year of teaching. She was not inclined to learn something new (which she probably had doubts about anyhow), so we learned phonetically. Everyone of us could read before we left for Xmas vacation, including the 2 girls who never knew the answer to questions. (and the one who stuttered, though I don't really think the two are related.)
Since then, a 3rd choice has reared its head, 3 cueing systems, where the reader tries to figure out the word from context: semantic, syntactic and graphophonic cues. I don't know what those words mean. On the radio they talked about the rest of the text, pictures, and something else. Did any of you get taught with a 3 cueing system?
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On 09/10/2019 09:16 PM, micky wrote:

That's what the LA schools (and probably everybody else) used. When we read aloud I thought that we were supposed to do it with big pauses between the words like all the other kids did. It seemed dumb, but if that was the way it was supposed to be done...
Needless to say, that was NOT how we taught our kids to read. We figured it was too important to let the school muck it up so we did it ourselves.
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On 11/09/2019 07.00, The Real Bev wrote:

My mother was a "toddler" teacher. Her successes getting kids to read were much better than the rest. The method she used was a mixture of the old classic and new ones - but as this is Spain, they do not apply to English. She used figures of things that sounded similar to each syllable or letter (I don't remember which), each figure in a card. The kids had to put the figures on top of the corresponding letter (or syllable). The other method she used was to read, a kid a time, from a special book that had combinations of letters in appropriate order (La Cartilla). This is a lot of effort for the teacher, one kid a time, and all kids, each one at his/her own pace.
What she said, is that most kids had a day when they suddenly discovered that the words joined in phrases and that they meant things. At that instant they started to read everything they could and enjoy it a lot. She said it was a wondrous moment of joy to see, and we supposed, for the kids. Their faces were amazing.
However, I remember some of my pals at school read haltingly.

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wrote:

I started school in '57 and was taught a combination of Phonics and word recognition. Word recognition also included some level of context. That 3 pronged method had me reading at a grade 3 level by the end of first grade. I became a voracious reader - both fiction and non-fiction - much of which was technical material. Without the phonetic component, it is MUCH more difficult to become fluent. My girls started school in 1987/88 and struggled until WE started teaching them basic phonics. Didn't help that we had them in French Immersion. I think they could read French better than English by grade 4. Oldest daughter does a LOT of reading (has to for her postgrad course-work!!!) - and enjoys reading for pleasure when she has time - She moved several hundred pounds of books in her last move, and has a pretty fair-sized set of book shelves in the apartment
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On 11/9/19 3:10 pm, Clare Snyder wrote:

Hmm, I started in 1957 too. Learnt phonetics, learnt word roots, breaking words into syllables, suffixes and prefixes. We learnt through semantics and syntactics as we went though we didn't know the words used to describe what we were doing. Graphonics is something you develop naturally as a voracious reader, which I was. I was always way ahead of my year level in reading - reading books for year 8 whilst in year 4, for instance. It helped that my parents were also voracious readers and there was always a library of books, magazines and the like in the house. Having a mother who was a university graduate was also a benefit.
My wife learnt English as a second language with whole word recognition. That relies on rote memory far too much and, as an adult, is not an appropriate way to learn a new language, especially when the script you learnt as a child was derived from Sanskrit. Try, for instance, to learn a new alphabet as an adult and you will get what I mean. The ability to do rote learning diminishes from the onset of the teenage years. Even now, some 39 years after my wife first learnt English, she still has difficulty breaking a word up into syllables and this hinders her pronunciation immensely.
Parents are the greatest influence upon children with regard to reading. When I took up teaching, I had a mixed bag of students, some very literate, some bordering on bare minimum literacy. I used to ask those students who had poor literacy levels if their parents were readers, had books and newspapers in the house, were regular visitors to the library, etc. In pretty much all cases, the answers were no to all the questions.
You can teach whatever you want in a school environment but that learning environment needs appropriate reinforcement at home. Without it, the learning withers.
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On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 12:17:08 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:

I'm 62. I started reading before kindergarten, but IIRC I was taught using phonics. I recall being told to "sound it out".
Cindy Hamilton
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I'm a year older than you. My father was military, so we moved around quite a bit. My mother taught me to read before I even started school (she was an RN, and had the patience, I guess, LOL), but I would assume it was probably phonetics and word recognition.
I sat my girls on my lap and read to them, and eventually had them reading out loud along with me, and they were both reading before starting school (2 years apart). Granted, not at a middle school level, but I would say probably at an early 2nd grade level. I assume that would also be the phonetics and word recognition method.
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On 09/11/2019 05:38 AM, SC Tom wrote:

I learned by the lap method too. My father would read the funny sheets and books to me. One day he was busy so I started reading one of my favorite books. My parents thought I was just playing until they asked me to read it out loud.
Word recognition, I guess, but I really don't know. I do recall the 'Look, Dick, see Spot' literature was intensely boring.
There were a lot of books around the house and I read anything I could lay my hands on including Frank Yerby's 'The Foxes of Harrow'. Loved the book although it raised some questions about how I could correctly use 'octoroon' in seventh grade. Persons of color were more finely categorized back then.
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On 9/10/19 11:16 PM, micky wrote:

64. Phonics. I had the same teacher twice, in 3rd and again in 6th grade. Grouchy old lady who didn't put up with any crap. She knew who was boss and made sure everyone in her classes did. Best teacher I had, of course.
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In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 06:41:30 -0500, Dean Hoffman

You were put back 3 years! I've never heard of that before. I be you were taller than all your classmates. You seem to write pretty well now. Congratulations.

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On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 03:46:59 -0400, micky

That's nothing, my mother only had 3 teachers from grade 1 to 8. Little country one-room schoolhouse.
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Teachers don't always teach the same age/grade. They may teach one age in one academic year, and a different age in another year. I had the same teacher two years in a row, as the school felt it gave the class more continuity (this was between ages 9 and 11, back in the 1960s).
Cheers Tony
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wrote:

At what age in US schools do they make the transition from having the same teacher for all subjects to have different teachers for different subjects. I think by age 9 and certainly by age 11 I had one teacher for English, another for Math(s), another for French etc - this was in the UK.
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Around here in North Carolina you usually start the 1 st grade around 6 years old. There is some pre school that start sooner. The 7th grade is where it usually starts one teacher per subject. That would usually put you about 13 or 14 years old.
There are usually 3 school seperations. Grades 1-7, grades 7&8 or maybe 7,8,9. Then 9-12 or 10-12. The 9 th grade has been bounced around a few times.
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On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 15:48:37 -0400, Ralph Mowery

Here in Ontario it's K-6 on most elementary schools, 7-9 in Senior Public and 9-12 in high school. Back when I was in school it was k-8 and 9-12 or 9-13. Grade 12 was SSGD and 13 was HSSCGD.
Used to start Kindergarten at age 5 - now Junior Kindergarten starts at 3 if they are out of diapers.
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says...

Ah, so the change from one teacher for everything to one teacher per subject happens quite a lot later in (some) US schools than in the UK. I hadn't realised that.
The separation of schools in the UK happens at around 11-12 (it varies slightly from one county to another) but I *think* subject teaching usually starts towards the end of the primary school, before children move on to the secondary school. I'm a bit out of touch with not having children of my own but I'm going by what my sister has told me of her boys.
One thing that varies from one county to another is whether the comprehensive system has been adopted. I mentioned a while ago up-thread that in the early 1970s *most* counties adopted a policy of all children in a given area going to the same secondary school at age 11, whereas previously children had taken a verbal and numerical reasoning test ("the 11-plus") which decided whether they went to a grammar school or a secondary modern school. A *few* counties (for example Buckinghamshire where we moved when I was about 13) decided to continue with the old 11-plus system to this day. There's probably not much difference between a grammar school and a secondary modern school nowadays - apart from catering for two sets of children of supposedly different abilities, I think there's a lot less assumption that the less-clever children will only want to become secretaries/housewives (for the girls) and manual workers (boys), and the SMs probably still aim to get children in to university or other higher-education colleges on less academic, more vocational courses.
One thing that has changed is the numbering of the school years. Until maybe about 20-30 years ago, the secondary school years were named starting at 1 for the first year *in the secondary school* - ie age 11. This led to the well-known fifth form (year) for age 15-16, when children could legally leave school after taking O level (Oordinary Level) exams in a large number of subjects studied at a more superficial level; and sixth form (divided into Lower Sixth and Upper Sixth) for the two extra years 16-17 and 17-18 when children could choose to stay on at school to study usually three subjects in much greater depth to take A level (Advanced Level) exams, the results of which govern which university will accept you for a degree course.
That concept has remained, though O levels are now called GCSE (General Certificate in Secondary Education), but the numbering of school years now starts when children start primary school at age 5 (a year earlier than in the US - or at least in North Carolina) - so our numbering is now a lot more like yours. It takes some adjustment to work out that Year 12 is what I knew as Fifth Form and Years 13 and 14 are what I knew as Lower/Upper Sixth ;-)
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On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 5:26:41 AM UTC-4, NY wrote:

I think Ralph's arithmetic is off. I was 12 when I started 7th grade and began having a different teacher for every subject.
Cindy Hamilton
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On 9/20/2019 6:36 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

How old were you when you started getting participation trophies?
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On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 8:13:25 AM UTC-4, Bod F wrote:

I never did. I grew up when you actually had to work to get stuff. My mother might still have my MSBOA medals.
Cindy Hamilton
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On 9/20/2019 10:54 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

So, you are clearly accomplished at tooting your own horn.  ;-)
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