When you provide links or other credible references that show nat gas
is unsafe, unreliable, unclean and has a short service life, then I'll
say it's based on fact, rather than emotion. I've had 25+ years of
nat gas heat and not a single outage do to eqpt failure or lack of nat
gas supply. I've lived in homes with oil burners that failed right
and left over similar time frames. I've also provided you with many
links that completely refute your claims. Other than you own
assertions and observations, you've provided zippo to support any of
I asked before, if nat gas is so damn inferior, why is it that it's
continuing to gain market share vs oil heat and only 4% of new homes
today use oil heat? Is everyone stupid except you?
Only according to you of course.
Whoppee de do! And what percent of people have requirements that need
a backup generator? Again, in 40+ years, I've never had one or been
in a situation that would justify it. What percentage of homes have
backup generators, that also come with their own whole set of issue?
I'd bet it's less than 1%, so why drag this into it?
More theoretical BS. In practice, 25+ years and I HAVE NEVER HAD A
SINGLE GAS OUTAGE. You don't even have gas, so how the hell would
you know how reliable it is? And again, where do you live that the
nat gas system is so poor that outage is such a big deal?
Sure it can happen. And with your jaundiced view, I'm sure if there
was a nat gas leak in Croatia, you would take note of it and chalk it
up. While if you neighbors were out of power for 3 days, well that
goes unnoticed. Or better yet, if their oil furnace quit in the middle
of the night.
Yeah, so you do think everyone else but you is stupid. It figures. And
in all my years, I never heard anyone say they are going with nat gas
because it avoids buying foreign oil. They do it because it's either
cheaper or competitevly priced, more reliable, burns cleaner, and
avoids having any oil tank issues or delivery issues.
Note, I'm not saying oil heat isn't a valid choice for some people.
If I didn't have nat gas available, I would probably use it too. But
to claim that nat gas is unsafe or inferior is total BS, unless you'd
like to supply some real world data.
Now it really gets silly. Everyone but you is so stupid they just
fall for nat gas marketing? Or is it that only nat gas companies can
do marketing? I hear plenty of radio commercials promoting oil heat.
You can't get away from the fact that despite all this, oil heat is
available virtually everywhere. Anyone with a nat gas line passing
their house can still choose oil if they like. Despite this, only 4%
of new homew opt for oil. Yeah, I know we're all stupid cause we
don;t prefer oil heat.
Yes we do have alternatives: showers and any other floor material.
So everyone that has a tub or tile floor must be stupid too. Or is it
in 28 years here in Houston TX, not a single gas outage EVER.
Electricity has failed, several times a year for a few seconds,
occassionally a transformer will blow and we'll be out for a few
hours. Longest service outage came during Hurricane Alicia where the
eye came directly over the top of the house in the first year after it
was built. Power was out for about 9 hours.
Live near a natural gas pipeline, within 500 yards. Live near a
railroad that carries upwards of 30 trains a day (only one or two
passenger trains) and that has had one or two significant derailments in
28 years. Never an evacuation here.
Natural gas is clean, and MORE reliable in delivery HERE than ANY other
heat source!!!! Propane comes a close second. A quick web search turns
up entries for folks that service the refining industry and not a SINGLE
residential heat oil delivery firm. Course this is far from conclusive
so I searched the 1200+ page local yellow pages. Only 9 entries and
checking those out, it will be DIFFICULT to find a reliable supplier of
home hating oil even here in the heart of the Texas refining area!!!!
Not just oil heat of course, but "Today's Oil Heat." "Heat is Warm. And
As if a 70 degree warm house heated by one source would be any less warm than a
degree warm house heated by another...
First there is no such thing as "big oil", those are big *energy*
companies that are involved in nat. gas as well. The producers all have
similar costs so logically the products they produce have similar costs.
It is not some sort of collusion.
Energy prices are also high at the moment due not only to the middle
east nonsense, but also due to the significant losses and costs
associated with rebuilding the offshore oil rigs and the refineries
severely damaged by Katrina. These are real costs that have to be
I think many is more accurate, not "most". I know quite a few people who
only use gas for heating.
I've found price differences of better than $0.20/gal during record cold
winters when the overall price was around $0.85/gal. I consider that to
be a significant difference. You nat. gas suppliers also have to buy
from the same source.
You're lucky. I've had no oil outage in 36 years and others within about
a 10 mile radius have had to go to shelters during a multi day gas
outage in the winter.
Good grief! You actually believe that? Nat. gas is indeed a petroleum
related product. Those gas flares you see off the side of oil rigs are
nat. gas that has been separated from the oil.
its natural gas that could be cleaned up futher for regular use,
supposedly it isnt cost effective...
on the gas vs oil heat consider this.
A electric outage costs the power company little other than fixing what
a natural gas outage costs a lot to the provider, turn off EVERY
effected home then go back and turn every signle home back on, winter
break in or pay for frozen pipe damage.
gas has a BIG incentive to maintain its infrastructruture well,
electric doesnt really have that same $$ reason.
around here duquesne light historically waits till the transformer
blows, resetting it thermal protection over and over to save a buck.
gas goes around replacing lines thruout their service area.
longest gas outage we ever had ZERO I am 49:(
Longest electric outage about 4 days after major storm, average outage
6 to 8 hours.. several times a year. mini outages nearly every day of a
few minutes long. I gave up on my microwaves digital clock for this
reason and keep my satellite DVR AKA TIVO on a UPS since it takes my
DVR a couple minutes to reboot and its basically a computer...
Gas CARES electric doesnt although just recently duquesne light having
drawn attention for unreliable service has promised to do better and
raise our rates:(
You don't think it does? You think you just stick a pipe in the ground
and run it to your furnace?
Think again, nat. gas does indeed get refined to remove a bunch of nasty
impurities in the gas. If it didn't need refining to be useable offshore
oil platforms would use the nat. gas they separate to power their
generators instead of just flaring it off.
The points are that you think natural gas is not a petroleum related
product and that there was a significant amount of oil based electric
production in this country.
Electricity production has been shifting from coal (not oil) to nat. gas
due to price (until they built all those generating plants and drove up
the price) and political issues making it easier to build small nat. gas
Um, it's the same gas, before the refining done to clean it up enough to
be plumbed to your house.
What you are referring to as "refining" is removing impurities, or even
propane etc. I have heard of people with natural gas wells on their property
could be so lucky) piping it right to their house, with the right safety
That's because that is waste gas and junk, not the natural gas you'll find in a
pipeline. Everything that comes out of the ground is not equal.
What makes you think I think that? Natural gas is not petroleum, but it is
related to petroleum at several junctures.
Well in 1973, as I quoted earlier, seventeen (17%) percent of electricity in the
States was produced from oil. Apparently you don't think it's significant. If
the power in the USA just disappeared, I would call that significant.
You also said that nuclear electric production was lessening in favor of natural
In fact nuclear power generation in the United States has been increasing, with
power levels from 1997 on. This is in spite of the fact that there are less
service today than there were in
Yeah "political issues" like clean air.
Natural gas is not refined. If it was the same gas, it *would* be piped to
Raw natural gas hasnt been refined seperating butane propane and other
gasses. Raw natural gas s indeed used directly in peoples homes, know a
fellow with a abandoned oil well on his property, ewhen they quit
pumping it he paid some $ to leave the casing and heats his home and
water with gas from this well, its at 5 PSI reportedly high for butler
since raw natural gas contains other gasses it has slightly more BTUs
than refined gas.
Also, the same nat gas that is flared off at production sites is being
used, at least in part, to generate onsite power. I remember seeing a
TV program that showed how they were doing it. The problem with
getting this energy from remote locations is that there is no economic
way to transport it, which is why much of it is flared off.
But what does any of this have to do with nat gas heat being unsafe,
unreliable, unclean, etc?
Nothing. I never said anything about unclean, just notably less safe and
reliable than oil. Burning the "raw" gas from a well will indeed be far
less clean than burning the refined gas supplied by a utility though.
Funny, earlier you said that you couldn't have a hole in the ground (e.g. a gas
well) and just pipe it to your furnace. Now you say that it is just "less
clean." Actually the quality of the gas depends on the well. Gas companies
actually use mass spectrometers to measure the content (and in the end the BTU
content) of the gas that ultimately gets served to customers.
THE big problem with oil is that you require electricity to operate the oil
Thus, your oil heat is no more reliable than your electric service.
Gas can be used for ventless heaters (if legal in your area) that can keep
you quite comfortable without electric power.
But any "modern" gas furnace will also REQUIRE electric power. A "power
vent" gas water heater will also require electricity but a natural draft
heater will not. If you have public water, your water heater (believe it
or not) can provide a significant amount of heat to your house from your
kitchen and bathroom(s). It might seem silly now, but if you lose electric
for more than 24 hours and it's COLD outside, having hot water makes a real
difference in morale.
Finally, you might want to consider getting a gas cooking stove. Most
cooks prefer gas over electric for stove tops. The gas stove can also
provide emergency heat when the electric fails.
Because gas is so clear burning you might not notice any leaks which permit
combustion products into your living areas. Thus it's a good idea to get a
battery powered CO detector "just in case."
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