On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:27:33 PM UTC-4, Don Phillipson wrote:
"Perez said the problem arose when California inspectors found that Lowe's advertised dimensional building products under nominal descriptions when they didn't actually fit the standards set forth by the NIST."
On 9/16/2014 10:43 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
FUCK YOU CALIFORNICATORS!
HAVE YOU NO SHAME? NO SHAME AT ALL?
Jesus H. Christ on a crutch. WTF is the matter with you people?
Speaking to the minority idiots (not to give idiots a bad name) only!
It's much worse than that, they've got the story all wrong. Clicking on a
URL in the story above takes you here:
I suspect not a single person complaining actually drilled down to READ what
this case was about. It was about Lowe's selling even smaller sized lumber
than what NIST defines as a 2 by 4!!!!! (1.5 by 3") It WAS fraud, not
justice gone wild and that is exactly why Lowe's settled. They were clearly
in the wrong.
As long as you meet NIST standards, you can call a 2x4 by its name in
By: Tim Regan
One of the district attorney's offices involved in the widely-criticized
$1.6 million Lowe's 2x4 settlement said it's "not misleading" to call 2x4 a
2x4, provided you meet existing nominal standards set forth by the National
Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). The NIST defines a 2x4 as
measuring 1.5 inches by 3.5 inches.
"If it's a softwood product like 2x4 lumber and it actually meets the NIST
standards, then they don't need to [include] the actual dimensions," said
Marin County Deputy District Attorney Andy Perez in an interview with
REMODELING. Meet that 1.5-inch by 3.5-inch standard, explained Perez, and
you're free to call it a 2x4.
Perez said the problem arose when California inspectors found that Lowe's
advertised dimensional building products under nominal descriptions when
they didn't actually fit the standards set forth by the NIST. Some of those
descriptions, stated the Marin County district attorney's office, were
provided to Lowe's by the manufacturers or other suppliers of the lumber.
When can't you call it a 2x4? Perez explained that if a dimensional building
product fails to meet the NIST nominal standards, or lacks a nominal
dimension standard-as is the case with composite wood-you must include
actual dimensions in the advertisement.
Jeez. Some people need to get more detail oriented and not jump to
erroneous conclusions. THAT is what is wrong with America, IMHO - no more
attention to detail or critical thinking and an utter willingness to believe
anything, especially if it conforms to some sort of personal or political
bias of theirs.
Or don't sell 2x4's that aren't.
"A Superior Court in Marin County California ordered Lowe’s, a
nation-wide retailer and distributor of building products, to pay a
$1.6 million settlement over a lawsuit alleging the inaccurate
description of structural dimensional building products. Lowe's
promoted lumber as 2x4 even though the wood measured less than 1.5 x
3.5 inches, the dimensional criteria established by industry
Guess that's okay with the kneejerkers here. Buying a 2x4 that ain't.
I would be pissed if I bought something advertised as a 2x4 and
it didn't measure up to the others.
My apologies. I just looked through all the posts that appeared on my
server and didn't see your comment, just a barrage of bilge about
California's fruit and nuts and more of the same. Welcome to the funeral
for critical thinking. Could you repost it for me so I can apologize a
second time cuz I just reread all the posts on Eternal September (where the
eff did that name come from??) and still don't see it? <g>
What bothers me the most is that some people are so hard over that they
don't even wonder why Lowe's would "roll over" if they were doing just what
every retail lumber merchant in America is doing. Its bogus right out of
the box. Sadly, it's the norm now. Its both sides doing it, too. Look at
all the black people who think white cops shoot black kids for no reason
other than they are black and believe, without evidence, he was surrendering
with his hands up. Truth died right along with critical thinking.
Reminds me of the neighbor's kid (a comic book educated youngster) loudly
insisting at a cookout this weekend that half of the Viking warriors were
female. Immediately my BS detector went off just like it did here. That
bogus rumor started from a tiny study that was based on the examination of
15 graves, and roughly half were women but there's no proof that they were
warriors. Could be wives, could be slaves, could be captives, etc.
Just to get his goat and prove his knowledgebase was faulty I asked him if
he could describe their helmets and he said "silver caps with horns."
Another Hollywood myth. No horns on Viking helmets except in the comics and
the movies. Where's that Brit guy Harry who always insisted Americans
learned their history from the movies? Mayhaps the bugger had a point.
Oh, BTW, I am NOT wrong, wrong, wrong. <g> You weren't one of the ones
complaining and my statement was "not a single person complaining actually
drilled down." You are excluded from that set of complainers. Elementary,
look up the origin of "Etermal September". It makes a lot of sense. You
won't be disappointed.
I'll be darned if I can copy the link properly, now that Google has gotten
all smarty pants on us. But search for the actual injunction and judgment:
It says nominal descriptions are ok. But I guess we are now faced with 2x4s
on the shelves that are sub-nominal. Who knew?
You are correct, but then your statement was rather foolish "I suspect not a
single person complaining actually drilled down to READ what this case was
about." Suspect? You knew darned well!
On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:24:17 -0400, Stormin Mormon
I keep hearing about how bad big box stores are and that you should
always go to a real lumber yard but I have had my share of crappy
lumber there too.
My wife ordered a bunch of lumber for a project at the club and of 50
2x6s, 16 of them had so much wane on the edges that they were
unusable. There were a half dozen 2x10s that were too twisted to use.
(out of 25). This was a "real" lumber yard, the biggest in Ft Myers
At least at HD/Lowes you can pick your own boards.
On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 10:53:04 PM UTC-4, email@example.com wrote:
Exactly. I see some folks here crowing about something, implying that
what the govt did was peachy keen, but so far all I see is the settlement
agreement, which says nothing about the source of all this. For all they
know, they could have found 10 boards that are under by 1/32, while 1000
are over by more. And at the same time, they are accusing the rest of us
of jumping to conclusions? Good grief.
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