This has been working fine, but over time, the connection leaks and it
drains out onto the floor before the drain can catch up.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/sammybinsnoozin/drain04.gif
What do you think about adding a tee like this? This way, the drain
would still take most of the water, any overflow would be diverted
outside and would not have to get into replacing pipes inside the wall.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/sammybinsnoozin/drain05.gif
Another choice is to replace the washer's pump (16 GPM) with a lower
flow - if one is available - but now we're taking modifying a washer,
$75+ for parts plus installation. If that's the only option, the washer
is going to disappear into the night.
Hi,
If it was working fine, then I'd think drain pipe has some thing built
up restricting water flow. I'd try a auger to see if any thing is in the
pipe. Clean it out.
Guv Bob:
When was the last time you had the main drain line from your house
cleared by a plumber?
My guess is that if this washer used to work fine, then what's happened
is that the drainage piping in your house has gradually clogged up with
solids from your kitchen sink, and it's that partial blockage that's
creating the problems.
A washing machine is the canary in the coal mine when it comes to the
health of your drain piping. If your washing machine stand pipe backs
up, it means the drain piping is partially clogged, and you need to
correct this because it could lead to a flooded basement. If rain water
comes seeping in through the weeping tiles around your house faster than
your drain piping can carry that water away, then the same thing could
end up causing your floor drain (catch basin) to back up, causing your
basement to flood.
If it were me, I would have the main drain line from your house cleared
before you do anything.
If that doesn't solve the problem, then have the plumber clear the drain
line for the washer.
If that doesn't solve the problem then splice a GATE valve into the
washing machine's drain hose and leave it partially closed to limit the
flow out of the washer. Doing this will not harm your washer's water
pump. Those pumps have rubber vaned impellers that are made to stand up
to pins, buttons and even coins going through them.
Nestork & Tony Hwang both hit the nail squarely on the head. You might be
able to clear the main house line if you have an access point near where th
e line exits the house. A hand-operated snake isn't much $$ compared to ha
ving a plumber come out. You also should use the snake between the washing
machine standpipe and the main house drain, altho that is a much less lkel
y spot to clog. But it might, if there is a rough spot anywhere on that dr
ain line and your clothes have a lot of loose lint-like material that washe
s down the drain each machine cycle.
Please let us know the outcome.
Guv:
I think you meant to say that the OP could replace the pully on the
washer's pump with a larger one, thereby getting a lower flow rate cuz
of the slower impeller speed.
So far as I know, no appliance company offers multiple pumps for their
washing machines. There is normally only one part number for the pump,
and so there is normally only one pump available.
Wrong approach. If it worked properly in the past. it should be fixed
as the work-arounds will only allow it to get worse and be even more
difficult to fix.
I'd start with an auger and see if it brings up a wad of lint or errant
pair of panties. Could be a build up of excess laundry chemicals too.
This has been working fine, but over time, the connection leaks and it
drains out onto the floor before the drain can catch up.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/sammybinsnoozin/drain04.gif
What do you think about adding a tee like this? This way, the drain
would still take most of the water, any overflow would be diverted
outside and would not have to get into replacing pipes inside the wall.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/sammybinsnoozin/drain05.gif
Another choice is to replace the washer's pump (16 GPM) with a lower
flow - if one is available - but now we're taking modifying a washer,
$75+ for parts plus installation. If that's the only option, the washer
is going to disappear into the night.
==
Thanks, fellers. It's been at least 15 years since any drains were
cleaned out. I'm calling the www.thesmellgoodplumber.com in the
morning.
I agree that since it worked before, the issue may be a clogging or other
problem in the sewer line, and calling a plumbing to clean it out is a good
idea.
Once, a long time ago when I was a part-time real estate sales person, I
sold someone's house and the buyers and I did the final check on the
property an hour or two before the closing (always a very important thing to
do). They turned on all the water, ran the washing machine and let it fill
and then pump out, and when the washing machine pumped out water backed up
out of the drain line. The buyers were obviously concerned at the closing,
and we worked it out that the title company would hold money in escrow so
the buyers could have the problem fixed. It later turned out that the
property had a clay sewer pipe underground that was cracked, broken, and
partially clogged with dirt etc.
And, just an FYI, I didn't see any traps shown in either design that you
posted. Maybe you just didn't include it in the diagram, but if there is no
trap, you have a direct opening to the sewer line which will allow sewer
gases to enter the property from the stack. Maybe the plumber can look at
that and, if needed, add a trap in the line.
Thanks, Tom. I'll check on the trap. Must be one there - I have don't
know. I'm hobbling along for the time being. The regular plumber
retired and I'm trying to get a referral now.
In the past few years I have had 3 other plumbers over. I really wanted
someone professional to do the work because I had other things to do,
but was not comfortable with any of them.
One had alcohol on his breath, lied about his license and asked the
wrong kind of questions not related to the job.
Second one suggested running water pipes up into the attic and then back
down in the garage for a new sink. Didn't make sense because there was
a crawl space below where all the connections would be made.
Third one quoted $300+ to replace two shower valve stems. Also did this
myself for $20 or so total.
Very discouraging trying to find reliable and knowledgeable workers
these days.
Here's the first try over the weekend, Joe Homeowner...
I checked all drains in the house and all drain normally except washer.
First I tried Drano twice in the washer drain and still too slow. Then
connected a Y hose fitting to the drain pipe and ran both hot and cold
at full pressure for 20 minutes. Max total flow would be less than the
15 gal/min of the washer pump. Normally cold alon is 6 gal/min and hot
is 4 gal/min, so I'm guessing the total was 8-9 gal/min. I did not hear
it backing up in the stand pipe.
Then snaked out from 1-1/2-inch cleanout plug from outside near the
kitchen sink and it was clear for the 25-ft length of snake I have.
Then I ran the hose directed into the cleanout and the most it would
handle without backing up was 3-4 gal per minute.
While I was snaking the kitchen drain out, I could tell the drain took a
sharp turn around 12 feet in, which is about where I would expect the
main line to be. No resistance in the pipe in that 25-ft.
Then I pour a gallon of lye-based drain cleaner in the washer drain and
let it sit overnight per instructions. This morning I flush it with hot
water for 5-10 minutes per instructions. Then connected hot and cold
back up to drain and ran another 20 minutes.
Then I snaked out the washer drain and cannot get past the bend just
below the floor. When in and out with it and pulled out a very small
amount of lint each time. Kept doing this until there was no more link
coming out -- total was not enough to slow the flow. But never did get
past that bent.
Then poured a 50/50 mix of lliquid soap and water in the drain and set
for 1/2 hour, then flushed out with hot water again.
Still no difference. My bet now is that the blockage is in the main
line which is too much of a job for me.
If I had the time and $$, I would seal up the drain standpipe, and run a
new drain pipe out the wall to an outide sink plumbed back into the
drain.
Any other ideas before I throw in the towel and call a plumber?
On Monday, September 22, 2014 12:42:18 PM UTC-4, Guv Bob wrote:
onnected a Y hose fitting to the drain pipe and ran both hot and cold at f
ull pressure for 20 minutes. Max total flow would be less than the 15 gal/
min of the washer pump. Normally cold alon is 6 gal/min and hot is 4 gal/m
in, so I'm guessing the total was 8-9 gal/min. I did not hear it backing u
p in the stand pipe.
en sink and it was clear for the 25-ft length of snake I have. Then I ran
the hose directed into the cleanout and the most it would handle without ba
cking up was 3-4 gal per minute.
sharp turn around 12 feet in, which is about where I would expect the main
line to be. No resistance in the pipe in that 25-ft.
et it sit overnight per instructions. This morning I flush it with hot wat
er for 5-10 minutes per instructions. Then connected hot and cold back up
to drain and ran another 20 minutes.
w the floor. When in and out with it and pulled out a very small amount
of lint each time. Kept doing this until there was no more link coming out
-- total was not enough to slow the flow. But never did get past that ben
t.
r 1/2 hour, then flushed out with hot water again.
e which is too much of a job for me.
new drain pipe out the wall to an outide sink plumbed back into the drain.
If the blockage is in the main line, then you're on borrowed time. Why
would you want to Band-Aid that instead of fixing it before the toilets
are pouring out into the tub, onto the floor, etc? Did this ever work
correctly? If it did, then it's not because of 1 1/2" pipe versus 2" pipe,
a design flaw, etc. It's because there is a blockage accumulating somewher
e.
And it almost alwasys continues to get worse over time.
Regarding Draino and similar, I've tried that many times on various problem
s
with very little success. I gave up trying to use it years ago.
I think that maybe people are pointing him in the direction of the main
sewer line for the house due to the diagram that he originally posted:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/sammybinsnoozin/drain04.gif
The diagram looked like the washer pump-out hose goes all the way into the
main stack and pumps the washer waste water directly into the stack rather
than through any smaller lines leading to the stack. It shows the end of the
washer pump-out hose as being inside the main sewer stack. So, if that is
the setup that he has, snaking out the smaller line that the washer hose is
placed inside wouldn't do anything.
That is one reason why I would think the problem may be due to the main
stack and main sewer line not being able to handle the high-volume outflow
from the washer hose without eventually backing up.
And, it was that diagram that made me think that he does not have any trap
in that setup to prevent sewer gases from backing up around the washer
outlet hose.
But, maybe his diagram is not clear or correct, or maybe I am
misinterpreting the diagram.
On Monday, September 22, 2014 2:50:12 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
I took that diagram just to be somewhat representative of what he has.
But even in that diagram, IDK how you can assume that it's the main stack.
The pipe is labled as being 1 1/2" steel. The vertical part appears to be
exactly the same size, not the size of a main stack.
So, if that is
The whole thing looks to be exactly the same size, ie 1 1/2".
If it's a main sewer line blockage, I would think he would have other
evidence of a problem, eg problems flushing toilets, water backing up
into lower drains, eg bathtub, etc.
I didn't take that diagram to be exactly what he has, only that he
has the washer drain going into somekind of pipe. I doubt he had one
drafted to match whatever he has. But I was also wondering where the
trap is.
I don't think it's *his* diagram. Did he really go to the trouble to
draw it? I would think it's just something he found that looks somewhat
similar.
I was wrong about the draining.... the washer drains into a blind
standpipe - no vent up above. Below is a p-trap, although I could not
get the snake to get past it.
After checking max flow at various drains, I think you're probably right
- some kind of blockage in the main drain. So a good rooting out is
probably needed.
However, the washer spec calls for 2-inch pipe minimum. So even if the
main is cleaned out, I suspect it would still back up in the stand pipe.
In any case, I'm thinking about running as large a diameter pipe over
the washer as is room for and making a solid connection with the washer
drain hose. Then let the pipe drain out naturally into the standpipe.
That would give me a place to put a lint strainer inline also without
the danger of backing up and out on the floor.
What do you think about this?....
On Monday, September 22, 2014 4:55:20 PM UTC-4, Guv Bob wrote:
I don't see what that solves. If there is a a partially plugged pipe
somewhere, why wouldn't the water just back up and come out the "breather
hole"? Is that trap accessible?
Oh I see. You are probably right. I just took the vertical pipe to be the
main stack, but I see now that it could just as well be some smaller
diameter vertical pipe.
My thinking about the main sewer line is just along the lines of what I have
seen before where a main line is cracked or broken underground but still
allows most drain fluid to go through, but may back up with a high-flow pump
sending water into the drain line faster than it can accommodate. I had
that happen on a house that I sold (as a Realtor) years ago for a seller,
and the buyers discovered the problem during the final walk-through on the
morning of the closing when they ran everything and it all worked fine --
until they also ran the washer pump out rinse water. That's when things
backed up, and it later turned out to be a cracked underground sewer line
(clay, I think).
Without being there, or maybe seeing a digital photo of the connection that
his diagram depicts, it may be hard to figure out what is going on.
PS: trader4,
You're right. I just saw that bost of his diagrams refer to the vertical
pipe as a 1 1/2 in drain standpipe. He also just wrote that the 1 1/2 inch
vertical standpipe does not vent at the top, and that he wasn't able to get
a snake past a trap that is further down in that 1 1/2 inch line. So, yes,
it sounds like a problem in that 1 1/2 inch line, not the main sewer line.
line.
Thanks. I'll keep trying with the snake. It's handing up on something
solid at the same place each time. I tried rotating backwards but no
better. I'm snaking thru the stand pipe, so I'll go up on the roof and
try the vent.
Even if that clears it and the drain lines are in good shape, the drain
line is still too small for that kind of flow rate. I'm going ahead
with teeing in some kind of overflow reservoir or overflow pipe out the
wall for insurance. Much easier than replumbing.
This would keep most of the water going down the drain and let the
overflow drain back when it clears.
On Monday, September 22, 2014 5:38:04 PM UTC-4, Guv Bob wrote:
1 1/2" drain line can't handle a washing machine? Either the line is plugged
or something else isn't right.
I'm going ahead with teeing in some kind of overflow reservoir or overflow pipe out the wall for insurance. Much easier than replumbing.
That should be swell with code and any inspectors.
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