BTW I am still trying to find the original complaint and what size the offending 2x4 actually was. The judgement doesn't even mention 2x4s. Was this really about synthetic deck boards? (what is referenced)
Yep, somewhere in the past 20 years both width and thickness of lumber has changed. I hadn't bought any in about that time and needed some 1x4. Instead of them being almost 3/4" they were only a bit over 1/2".
Harry K
The only time I have seen that at the big box is when you buy furring strips. If you actually buy the dimensional lumber it seems to be right.
But PR, it's just too, too HARD to do my own fact checking, whine, whine. Now that I can just cut and paste "the origin of "EterMal September"" and have Google correct the spelling too (what a lazy world we live in!) I find:
=================================================== Eternal September From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Long September) Jump to: navigation, search Eternal September (also September that never ended)[1] is the period beginning September 1993,[2] a date from which it is believed by some that an endless influx of new users (newbies) has degraded standards of discourse and behavior on Usenet and the wider Internet.
The term eternal September is a Usenet slang expression, and was coined by Dave Fischer. The term is so well entrenched that one news server calls itself Eternal September, and gives the date as a running tally of days since September of 1993 (e.g., Sep. 03, 2012 is "September 6943, 1993, the September that never ends.").[3] This server was formerly named Motzarella.org.[4]
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Ooh, so relevant!
Thanks.
What I MEANT to say was something along the lines of "its all the usual suspects that chimed in without wondering how a $1.6M settlement could be reached if the facts were as some asserted - that the legal system didn't even know that 2 by 4's have been neither 2" or 4" for quite some time."
You would think by that time SOMEONE would have told the judge or prosecutor about standard industry practices. And they did. But then YOU had to rain on MY parade by attempting to post a link to the actual case file, you DEMON!!!!! (just doing my share to "degrade the standards of discourse!")
What's more interesting is the realignment of previous positions that's occuring now that the truth is known and the myth debunked.
SH
Agreed. Lumberyards sell crap, too.
I've showed more than a few other customers how to "sight" along a 2 by 4 like aiming a rifle to find the ones that are straight. Of course, many that were perfectly straight in the store warped in fairly short order, some enough to ski with!
SH
What exactly are you crowing and bitching about? So far, as gfre said, we don't know what the specifics of the original claim by the govt was, ie how far out of spec those 2 x 4's were. If some percentage are 1/16 under and some are 1/16 over, does that justify what was done? All I've seen that's specific so far is the settlement that gfre posted. It says
*nothing* about the validity of the original charges.And regardless, the ones ultimately paying this $1.7 mil will be consumers. Lowes will just raise their prices to cover it, that's economics 101. Great victory for the consumers of CA.
Exactly. I see some folks here crowing about something, implying that what the govt did was peachy keen, but so far all I see is the settlement agreement, which says nothing about the source of all this. For all they know, they could have found 10 boards that are under by 1/32, while 1000 are over by more. And at the same time, they are accusing the rest of us of jumping to conclusions? Good grief.
All the money Lowes has comes from customers like you and me. Lets reword that "The Lowes customers will pay for the legal team, as part of the price of the products the customers buy at the store."
I just ran across this tid bit:
"In California, it's not permitted to use the same "nominal" terms to describe composite dimensional products. These composite products require actual dimensions to be used in labeling.
It is this area -- the composite area of building products -- where Lowe's originally ran afoul of a routine investigation from the State Division of Measurement Standards, according to sources."
True. I first remember them as 1 5/8 x 3 5/8.
How's that working now that 3/4" ply isn't? :)
Still close enough for framing...as noted elsewhere within thread not so much for cabinetry w/o compensation.
That's been a _loooong_ time back...the half-under is a lot more convenient for many reasons, not the least of which is the multiples are also halves...
That is what I found too. It gets this back to the ridiculous. If I buy a 5/4 hardwood deck board it will be about 1" thick but if I buy a
5/4th Trex it will have to be 1.25" thick. How is that better for the consumer again?
I got the 1x4s from a lumberyard though. I wonder if they weren't something other than the 1x4 common I asked for.
Harry K
Harry K
Heh! I did a total remodel on this shack I own to include removing the ent ire roof, rafters and all to change the roofline (was a hip, I needed a gab le to add an addition).
At lumberyard picked up a dozen 2x4 being a bit selective to build a tempor ary wall to support the ceiling while we were working on the roof. Finishe d that 'prop wall' in the evening. Next morning one of those 'hand picked' 2x4 had a perfet 90degree twist from top to bottom.
I have been there when they cut the bands on a 'lift' of 2x. The pile woul d expand considerably.
Harry K
That's a good question, isn't it? And to top it off, it's not like the true dimensions are hidden. It's not like selling gas as premium and it's actually regular. Anyone using those decking boards can easily see the true dimensions. And if you take it home, go to do your project and decide that the Trex is not what you thought it was, isn't right, etc, last time I checked, Lowes will take it back, no questions asked.
...
The shorter tubaX studs are generally labelled as "precuts" and are sized for the specific finished wall height w/ base and top plates. Dimensional construction lumber is what is full length.
Ply is a different story entirely...again construction material from fir/pine is thinner but manufactured to meet the Code requirements for stiffness, etc., for the various applications. There are different products for sheathing as opposed to subflooring and the like now whereas in the olden days there was basically "just ply".
I've not checked on what the composites like MDF and all are these days, but I _think_ they're still running full thickness...anybody here already checked that out to not duplicate effort? I've bought nothing recently at all other than hardwood ply for cabinetry/furniture and it has been of the pricey variety that is not at all reflective of construction materials.
...
I was going to add that the solution rather than making the special trip is to simply drive the 10d (3") at a slight angle. While other than at a real full-line building supply or hardware, 9d are 3-1/4" while an 8d is kinda puny oftentimes.
I think locally there's nobody that carries the odd numbers any longer; the only remaining lumberyard is a DoItBest/Mead outlet and they're a bigbox wannabe and the old farm supply I normally trade at has been revamped into more of a home store by the son of the founder since he's taken over and it's become far less useful for it.
I worked at a lumber store as a teenager. It was a very useful skill to know the way to "sight" lumber.
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