Not Enough Outlets for EVs

[invalid unparseable]

Farmers complained about solar panels here:

[Scott Lurndal]

What farmer complained in the article you cite (other than the pictured truck)? The article is just another example of planning board nimbyism, and the board vote was only one vote from a draw.

Other farmers have embraced solar panels - they're great for growing crops that require partial shade (grow the crops under and between the panels) and they make the panels more efficient and use less water for the crops. Win-win.

[invalid unparseable]

I wanted to cite the local paper but it is only available to subscribers. Up front it said: "While most farmers favor community solar as an option for making extra income, most oppose the larger utility-scale facilities, she said."

[Scott Lurndal]

Yeah, there are no dangers whatsoever associated with gasoline.

[invalid unparseable]

Of course but gasoline needs oxygen and an ignition source.

In the battery all the energy is concentrated therein.

Much more potentially hazardous.

[Jock]

Far fewer which can burn your house down.

[invalid unparseable]

Could have also mentioned this:

[Scott Lurndal]

But much less likely to actually _be_ hazardous. One swallow doesn't make a summer.

"A total of 430 2020 Ford F-150 pickup trucks are being recalled due to a fire hazard. The issue was caused during manufacturing when the nut that fastens the positive battery cable to the starter motor may have been improperly attached."

"Ford has announced it is recalling just over 874,000 F-Series pickup trucks due to a risk of fire in models equipped with a block heater. The recall affects models in the United States and in Canada, and concerns 2015-to-2019 F-150 models as well as 2017-to-2019 F-250, F-350, F-450 and F-550 models."

"Nov 13, 2020 - Ford recalls 28,000 SUVs and sedans for fire, rollaway risks."

You've provided no evidence that EV batteries are less safe in a garage than gasoline vehicles.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Good call. ICE cars are perfectly safe. Oh, wait, look at this

[T]

Hi Ed,

Somewhere I read, but can not find it again, that residential indoor charging of EV's in Germany is illegal.

I do not think I would be comfortable charging a coal powered car in my garage without a fire suppression system.

I think the ultimate solution will be hydrogen, but the cost of the fuel is still too high. And leave oil to all the plastics and other products they make out of it.

I think you have mentioned it before, but the battery thing could wind up biting us all in the ass with all the pollution problems associated with its production and recycling issues. Not to mention turning the world into a one YUGE open pit mine trying to produce all the necessary lithium and all the air pollution from all the oil fueled equipment to move 500,000 lbs of dirt to produce one 1,000 lb battery per car.

On the other hard, Elon does produce some awesome cars, if you can afford them and can deal with the charging issues.

I wonder if Subi will even produce a hydrogen car?

-T

[Scott Lurndal]

Wow, T, "you heard indoor EV charging is banned in Germany". You really gotta stop getting your information from infowars. And if you can't find a cite that supports your assertion, don't make the assertion because it makes you look (even more) like an ass.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I don't want coal in my garage either. I'd use electric from gas or solar.

Only thing I could find it seems to be encouraging solar chargers

Hyundai was working on fuel cells but seems like slow going.

[T]

That has got to take up a ton of real estate! Or a really big roof!

[trader_4]

And no similar issues there right? Like having a 10,000 PSI tank of hydrogen gas in your car, in your garage. Or liquified hydrogen. That's the real problem with hydrogen, storing it and generating it, which would require either a tremendous amount of solar or nuclear, etc.

[trader_4]

It's like I've said before. Mr. T only looks for whatever agrees with his already formed conclusions. And then he eagerly accepts and spreads it, without regard to the source or even if there is a source. We see this in everything, from stolen election BS to anti-vax BS. Rudy or Mr. Pillowhead says the election was stolen, that makes it so. Sixty court cases, all lost, laughed out of court or withdrawn, because they had no evidence or no case or usually both, well, just ignore that.

[invalid unparseable]

You cannot liquify hydrogen at the consumer level and high pressure tanks required.

I previously mentioned Nobel Prize winning chemist, George Olah's, suggestion that methanol be used in fuel cells.

You could use other liquifiable hydrocarbons. Greenies do not like this as you still emit carbon dioxide. You can recycle carbon dioxide by hydrogenation.

Here in DE we have carbon limits but our government has decreed natural gas is exempt and supported (and public got hosed on) funding fuel cell generated electricity from natural gas.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Makes sense if the methanol can be made in the needed quantities without harming something else. The use of ethanol in gas has conflicting results.

Should at least be seriously investigated. We really do have to get off of oil at some point.

Methanol can even be made from human waste. Maybe a potty seat in the garage can fuel your car.

[T]

Yo can not liquify natural gas at the comsumer level either.

The tank issue is already solved.

Here is Toyota's hydrogen tanks being tested:

Tank Safety: Hydrogen Tank Gunshot (3:19)

You mentioned that to me before. The idea sound really good. I forget where we get the methanol from.

Natural Gas fuel cells sounds really great too. The issue with carbon dioxide, which is political in nature only, is still in the way. It is the greenies religion, whether it is real or not.

I remember in one of the national parks, being driven on a natural gas powered tour bus as a kid. Problem: the "odorant" in the gas still got out a bit. The exhaust smelled like hell. Probably incomplete combustion.

Hydrogen, when it catches fire rises safely away. Unlike lithium batteries that take 24 hours to safely go out and gasoline/liquids that say put.

I'd love it if Subi did a natural gas fuel cell or a hydrogen fuel cell. Natural gas would be a lot easier to find. Not sure the availability of methanol. I'd go for that too, if I could find it.

But the price would have to come down substantially.

I really do like fuel cell technology.

Pollution wise, we are going to have to solve the supply issues with hydrogen in the future. But we have lot of time.

[T]

Methonol sound interesting. Like hydrogen, the supply issue may be the hold back

Ethanol in gasoline is stupid. The energy you get out of the ethanol is less than the petroleum energy used to create it. And it goofs your car up too. I get almost two extra miles per gallon running pure gas.

[Dean Hoffman]

The incentive for ethanol production is to add value to a bushel of corn. The feed value doesn't change by running corn through an ethanol plant.

I haven't done a mile/dollar comparison of ethanol vs. regular gas. The gas with ethanol was cheaper the last time I bothered to look at the local gas pump. Corn has a lot of uses besides feeding Bessie the cow.